The tattooed lawyer Forum

[MC Southstar]

It's true. Tattooed lawyers who go to Loyola with scholarships will shock me.

[The Zeppelin]

wait i dont get the point of the thread. are you shocked that a lawyer has a tattoo? must be a southerner. im from LA and a lot of lawyers have tatts. my whole back is tattooed and im going to Loyola LA with a 66k scholarship. i hope i dont shock anyone

You're a douchebag.

Its true. Southerners are an inferior people. All that inbreeding.

Wait a second. Are you saying that you don't sleep with your sister?

[bilbobaggins]

Tattooed arms are weak. Bring it to the face if you want to have any kind of fun in a courtroom.

face tats are gnarly, I saw that shit in real life a few times

I wouldn't want to be up against counsel with a tiger face makeover.

--ImageRemoved--

call me ignorant, judgemental, or whatever else, but Im sorry--people like that must have a few screws loose. why on earth would you purposely make yourself look unattractive? its like the goth kids in hs that insist on wearing black lipstick and dressing in all black because they refuse to sell into the status quo and dont need to "fit in" and just want to be "individuals" and "Express themselves" and yet somehow, every other goth kid finds the *same* exact way to express their "inidviduality"--in the end, they dress in a way that allows them to fit in with a specific group, and they pride themselves on not caring what anybody else thinks, but really its just a defense mechanism. </end gross generalization>

You are ignorant and judgmental. Now that we have that out of the way:

- Not everyone thinks what you think is attractive. Some people actually think the opposite. I know, shocking.
- Don't know about the pent up goth-hate. Maybe you're a latent goth lover? No clue
- Some people actually don't care what you think. This is a good thing.

This thread is awesome.

[MC Southstar]

Personally, I find goth fashion aesthetically pleasing. I just hope they take showers.

[crazycanuck]

I have my nipples pierced with a chain leading down and hooked to a ring in my taint. I also like malls. See you soon.

Yeah... so... in highschool I was watching a fight out behind the school, I think I was in grade 10, and one of the guys had a chain from his nipple to his belly button, and he was just pounding the other guy. He knocked him to the ground, went to go for the kick to the head, and the guy reached up, grabbed the chain, and pulled it out. He was wearing a white shirt and it instantly became soaked red from blood. The cops arrived shortly after and the paramedics, and the dude was taken to the hospital. Never found out what happened to him after.

Not pretty. I can still picture it, the white shirt just being soaked in blood.

[The Zeppelin]

I bet Tiger Face is getting a zebra for Christmas (Narnia confirms that large cats are Christians)

[Mr. Matlock]

I have my nipples pierced with a chain leading down and hooked to a ring in my taint. I also like malls. See you soon.

Yeah... so... in highschool I was watching a fight out behind the school, I think I was in grade 10, and one of the guys had a chain from his nipple to his belly button, and he was just pounding the other guy. He knocked him to the ground, went to go for the kick to the head, and the guy reached up, grabbed the chain, and pulled it out. He was wearing a white shirt and it instantly became soaked red from blood. The cops arrived shortly after and the paramedics, and the dude was taken to the hospital. Never found out what happened to him after.

Not pretty. I can still picture it, the white shirt just being soaked in blood.

Mmmmmmmmm...... someone ripping out my nipple/taint piercings. *cums in pants*



Ahhhhhh.......

[MC Southstar]

Mmmmmmmmm...... someone ripping out my nipple/taint piercings. *cums in pants*



Ahhhhhh.......

I think I'm in love with you.

[rayiner]

You are ignorant and judgmental. Now that we have that out of the way:

- Not everyone thinks what you think is attractive. Some people actually think the opposite. I know, shocking.
- Don't know about the pent up goth-hate. Maybe you're a latent goth lover? No clue
- Some people actually don't care what you think. This is a good thing.

I've found it to be the case that generally when someone calls me ignorant or judgmental, they look weird, are doing something weird, or just plain are weird.

People "expressing themselves" and "standing out" are really everything that's wrong with America.

[bees]

You are ignorant and judgmental. Now that we have that out of the way:

- Not everyone thinks what you think is attractive. Some people actually think the opposite. I know, shocking.
- Don't know about the pent up goth-hate. Maybe you're a latent goth lover? No clue
- Some people actually don't care what you think. This is a good thing.

I've found it to be the case that generally when someone calls me ignorant or judgmental, they look weird, are doing something weird, or just plain are weird.

People "expressing themselves" and "standing out" are really everything that's wrong with America.

You sir, are an idiot. Wow.

Did it even cross your mind to stop and realize that what you think is weird means absolutely nothing?

(I'm hoping I came into some sarcastic conversation here and have totally misinterpretted the above post, but I don't think so.)

[rayiner]

You are ignorant and judgmental. Now that we have that out of the way:

- Not everyone thinks what you think is attractive. Some people actually think the opposite. I know, shocking.
- Don't know about the pent up goth-hate. Maybe you're a latent goth lover? No clue
- Some people actually don't care what you think. This is a good thing.

I've found it to be the case that generally when someone calls me ignorant or judgmental, they look weird, are doing something weird, or just plain are weird.

People "expressing themselves" and "standing out" are really everything that's wrong with America.

You sir, are an idiot. Wow.

Did it even cross your mind to stop and realize that what you think is weird means absolutely nothing?

(I'm hoping I came into some sarcastic conversation here and have totally misinterpretted the above post, but I don't think so.)

Most people (unless you're in ancient Britannia) would consider extensive body tattoos to be weird. It's a term defined in terms of social convention (ie: aggregate perception), not individual perception.

Also, how am I an idiot for espousing a basic, common sense philosophy adopted intuitively by nearly every culture?

[MC Southstar]

You guys are all full of nonsense. Tattooed lawyers win the case.

[bees]

You are ignorant and judgmental. Now that we have that out of the way:

- Not everyone thinks what you think is attractive. Some people actually think the opposite. I know, shocking.
- Don't know about the pent up goth-hate. Maybe you're a latent goth lover? No clue
- Some people actually don't care what you think. This is a good thing.

I've found it to be the case that generally when someone calls me ignorant or judgmental, they look weird, are doing something weird, or just plain are weird.

People "expressing themselves" and "standing out" are really everything that's wrong with America.

You sir, are an idiot. Wow.

Did it even cross your mind to stop and realize that what you think is weird means absolutely nothing?

(I'm hoping I came into some sarcastic conversation here and have totally misinterpretted the above post, but I don't think so.)

Most people (unless you're in ancient Britannia) would consider extensive body tattoos to be weird. It's a term defined in terms of social convention (ie: aggregate perception), not individual perception.

Also, how am I an idiot for espousing a basic, common sense philosophy adopted intuitively by nearly every culture?

Because what is "right" or accepted in any number of societies does not mean that this is correct or "not weird" and to believe so is a bit ignorant. I'm sure you and I would consider the same sort of people "weird" and I'm probably biased against them but I know that it's ignorant of me to think that way.

Didn't mean to be quite so harsh but no one should ever think they have correctly decided how people should look.

No hard feelings. Merry Christmas. Or happy holidays or whatever.

[janderson]

I almost got a spur of the moment tattoo once under pressure from my then-gf who had a few done. It just so happened the tattoo parlor was closed that day and I never got up the initiative to try again.

[rayiner]

I've found it to be the case that generally when someone calls me ignorant or judgmental, they look weird, are doing something weird, or just plain are weird.

People "expressing themselves" and "standing out" are really everything that's wrong with America.

You sir, are an idiot. Wow.

Did it even cross your mind to stop and realize that what you think is weird means absolutely nothing?

(I'm hoping I came into some sarcastic conversation here and have totally misinterpretted the above post, but I don't think so.)

Most people (unless you're in ancient Britannia) would consider extensive body tattoos to be weird. It's a term defined in terms of social convention (ie: aggregate perception), not individual perception.

Also, how am I an idiot for espousing a basic, common sense philosophy adopted intuitively by nearly every culture?

Because what is "right" or accepted in any number of societies does not mean that this is correct or "not weird" and to believe so is a bit ignorant. I'm sure you and I would consider the same sort of people "weird" and I'm probably biased against them but I know that it's ignorant of me to think that way.

Didn't mean to be quite so harsh but no one should ever think they have correctly decided how people should look.

No hard feelings. Merry Christmas. Or happy holidays or whatever.

There is nothing ignorant about being skeptical about people who are different. It's a natural human reaction, and a byproduct of an eminently rational instinct: the impulse to categorize like things into groups. As for "right" versus "wrong", when we're talking about arbitrary things like body art or hairstyle, comparing things against socially acceptable norms is the only sensical thing to do. What other useful definition of "right" is there?

[bees]

^^ (too much to quote)

You have gone from determining that certain people are "everything that is wrong with America" to saying you are just being skeptical.

I'm pretty damn skeptical about a guy who tries to turn himself into a tiger. Does he symbolize what's wrong with our country? No. I took issue with what you said because of that.

[rayiner]

^^ (too much to quote)

You have gone from determining that certain people are "everything that is wrong with America" to saying you are just being skeptical.

I'm pretty damn skeptical about a guy who tries to turn himself into a tiger. Does he symbolize what's wrong with our country? No. I took issue with what you said because of that.

I said people "expressing themselves" is symbolic of (at least one thing) that is wrong with our country. The general attitude towards flouting social convention is inefficient and exceedingly self-indulgent, the product of a nation full of people that don't have real problems to overcome. It was also a dig at the "open-mindedness police" that throws out the "ignorant idiot" line every time someone criticizes such behavior.

As for the "skeptical" bit: you said, essentially, that you felt guilty for being biased against the people you considered weird. I was simply saying that you should embrace your human instinct, not feel ashamed of it.

[Aeon]

Because what is "right" or accepted in any number of societies does not mean that this is correct or "not weird" and to believe so is a bit ignorant.

There is similar reasoning behind moral relativism (which, needless to say, is an exceedingly dodgy realm to get into). Normalcy is in and of itself determined by a majority standard, and just because some society (or group therein) believes something to be acceptable does not immediately mean that this belief needs to be taken on par with more widely-held convictions. I apologize for the somewhat cliched example, but some societies believe in cannibalism; does this mean that such beliefs need to be tolerated?

I said people "expressing themselves" is symbolic of (at least one thing) that is wrong with our country. The general attitude towards flouting social convention is inefficient and exceedingly self-indulgent, the product of a nation full of people that don't have real problems to overcome.

I find myself agreeing with Ray on this.

[bees]

Because what is "right" or accepted in any number of societies does not mean that this is correct or "not weird" and to believe so is a bit ignorant.

There is similar reasoning behind moral relativism (which, needless to say, is an exceedingly dodgy realm to get into). Normalcy is in and of itself determined by a majority standard, and just because some society (or group therein) believes something to be acceptable does not immediately mean that this belief needs to be taken on par with more widely-held convictions. I apologize for the somewhat cliched example, but some societies believe in cannibalism; does this mean that such beliefs need to be tolerated?

I said people "expressing themselves" is symbolic of (at least one thing) that is wrong with our country. The general attitude towards flouting social convention is inefficient and exceedingly self-indulgent, the product of a nation full of people that don't have real problems to overcome.

I find myself agreeing with Ray on this.

Moral absolutism isn't dodgy? I'm sorry but this conversation started because Ray said that when people call him ignorant they are in fact (usually) the weird ones. That is a ridiculous claim to make (regardless of the fact that his views are created by a larger society).

Thank you for your example - you rightfully acknowledged it wasn't the best one to give. Not everything certain people do is to be tolerated. And cannibalism is easy to put in that group. Body image is not.

Conformity isn't all you've hyped it up to be. I'm just saying be careful before you write off things as weird.

[Lonagan]

Nah, I don't really buy anything in this thread, I'm still pretty sure tattoos are just something that happen on TV.

[thebunk]

i'm with bees on this. it is a bold claim to make that flouting social convention is self-indulgent. not saying that things aren't sometimes taken to a silly extreme and rendered absolutely absurd, but to make a such a blanket statement about the intentions of others is equally absurd.

at the risk of hyperbole, many of the greatest minds in history deliberately flouted social convention in ways that were neither self-indulgent or inefficient. in many ways, the greatest strength of this country is that there is a strong tradition of counter-culture thought and action, and resistance to ingrained ideology and practice.

the skeptical amongst you are certainly entitled to be skeptical and find people to be weird. that is your opinion, and it is your right to have such opinions regarding deviancy and normalcy. when those opinions become connected to moral and normative judgments though, when they are used as the basis of an argument of fault and weakness in a nation, they become oppressive, dogmatic, and, ultimately, senseless.

and on a side-note. its absurd to drag normative evaluations of cannibalism into this discussion. the talk was of body art and socially deviant style, i find citing instances of murder to be a bit outside the realm of the topic.

[biggamejames]

it is a bold claim to make that flouting social convention is self-indulgent.

If you amend the statement to say "usually self-indulgent," then I agree with it.

[rayiner]

Moral absolutism isn't dodgy? I'm sorry but this conversation started because Ray said that when people call him ignorant they are in fact (usually) the weird ones. That is a ridiculous claim to make (regardless of the fact that his views are created by a larger society).

How is it ridiculous to judge certain people as being weird, when most people in our society would make the same judgement?

There are enormous benefits to social conformity. It facilitates communication and understanding, by establishing common frames of reference for thought. It facilitates group cohesion, reducing conflict between members of the group. Humans, being fundamentally social creatures, have a natural instinct to both conform and expect others to do the same. It strains reason to assert that manifestations of such expectations are "ridiculous".

at the risk of hyperbole, many of the greatest minds in history deliberately flouted social convention in ways that were neither self-indulgent or inefficient.

Of course, the abolitionists were not being self-indulgent when they challenged the social conventions pertaining to the owning of slaves, etc. However, the guy at the Urban Outfitters wearing giant loops that stretch out his earlobes so you can put your hand through them is not flouting custom for the sake of advancing social justice. He's doing it to get attention, make a statement, or impress some counter-culture chick. I don't think it's ridiculous of me to call that inefficient and self-indulgent.

[Aeon]

Moral absolutism isn't dodgy?

There are numerous moral values that can consistently be found in many cultures throughout the world. To claim that morals are relative creates significant and irreconcilable problems. There are behaviors that are considered morally repugnant and indeed abnormal, and rightly so. Just because some Hutus found it acceptable to murder hundreds of thousands of Tutsis and moderate Hutus in Rwanda in 1994 does not make their act morally justified by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, most peoples and cultures throughout the world would condemn such an act as highly morally repulsive, regardless of whether there are some groups of people who would claim it acceptable.

I realize that I'm really diverging off the main topic of this thread here, and I apologize for that. In addressing the broader moral questions that have been raised in the discussion so far, perhaps understandably, the scope of my arguments too has broadened. I'll try to get back closer to the original topic now (as moral philosophy discourse can go on for pages and pages with no end in sight)!

and on a side-note. its absurd to drag normative evaluations of cannibalism into this discussion. the talk was of body art and socially deviant style, i find citing instances of murder to be a bit outside the realm of the topic.

Cannibalism need not involve murder. By definition, it implies consumption of the flesh of a member of one's own species, irrespective of cause of death. This is a semantic side-track, however. I fail to see how it is absurd to use cannibalism (which I think we'd all agree to be a socially deviant behavior) as a point of comparison, albeit one that is admittedly more extreme than body-piercing and tattoos.


(By the way, I think that this is a fascinating topic in general; thanks for a great discussion.)

[Lonagan]

Cannibal lawyers win the case.