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[DrSpaceman]

Read carefully

Says the guy failing LRW

[mootness]

.

[TheSpanishMain]

Also, I'm curious about what LRW instructors at T10 schools are like. Anyone know firsthand?

I go to Georgetown, so not a T10 school, but LRW professors in my experience still devote the vast majority of their energy for preparing people for practice. If you want a scholarly jerk off session, there's always journal.

[mootness]

Also, I'm curious about what LRW instructors at T10 schools are like. Anyone know firsthand?

I go to Georgetown, so not a T10 school, but LRW professors in my experience still devote the vast majority of their energy for preparing people for practice. If you want a scholarly jerk off session, there's always journal.

Thanks for the insight. What about the course leads you to believe that you're being prepared for practice, at least mostly? Were you informed of the nature of the course in the syllabus or at the start of classes? Why do you think I want a "scholarly jerk off session"?

[pancakes3]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

[TheSpanishMain]

Thanks for the insight. What about the course leads you to believe that you're being prepared for practice, at least mostly?

The assignments are all things that you might do as an associate: memos, briefs, etc.

Were you informed of the nature of the course in the syllabus or at the start of classes?

I guess? I mean, I got a syllabus. I get the feeling that you think you've been the victim of a bait and switch here, but I'm not sure what you were expecting from an LRW class if not training in the types of writing lawyers commonly do. Now, in your case it sounds like it's being done poorly, but I don't get why you're taking issue with the goal in general.

Why do you think I want a "scholarly jerk off session"?

You keep saying you don't think it should be all about preparing people for law practice. I'm not sure what else there is, really.

[mootness]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

We're all getting tangential. It would entail teaching you legal writing and research.

[nerd1]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

We're all getting tangential. It would entail teaching you legal writing and research.

And why does your professor teach you legal writing and research? To prepare you for practice, not for fun, not for academia.

[mootness]

Thanks for the insight. What about the course leads you to believe that you're being prepared for practice, at least mostly?

The assignments are all things that you might do as an associate: memos, briefs, etc.

Were you informed of the nature of the course in the syllabus or at the start of classes?

I guess? I mean, I got a syllabus. I get the feeling that you think you've been the victim of a bait and switch here, but I'm not sure what you were expecting from an LRW class if not training in the types of writing lawyers commonly do. Now, in your case it sounds like it's being done poorly, but I don't get why you're taking issue with the goal in general.

Why do you think I want a "scholarly jerk off session"?

You keep saying you don't think it should be all about preparing people for law practice. I'm not sure what else there is, really.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm saying that you can still teach LRW from the role of a teacher, i.e. focus on giving your students knowledge of these skills pedagogically. What I'm opposed to is the idea of giving scattered, disorganized, incomplete information and justifying this by saying your students should piece things together themselves because such a style mimics how some law firms might operate.

[mootness]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

We're all getting tangential. It would entail teaching you legal writing and research.

And why does your professor teach you legal writing and research? To prepare you for practice, not for fun, not for academia.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm saying that you can still teach LRW from the role of a teacher, i.e. focus on giving your students knowledge of these skills pedagogically. What I'm opposed to is the idea of giving scattered, disorganized, incomplete information and justifying this by saying your students should piece things together themselves because such a style mimics how some law firms might operate

[nerd1]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

We're all getting tangential. It would entail teaching you legal writing and research.

And why does your professor teach you legal writing and research? To prepare you for practice, not for fun, not for academia.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm saying that you can still teach LRW from the role of a teacher, i.e. focus on giving your students knowledge of these skills pedagogically. What I'm opposed to is the idea of giving scattered, disorganized, incomplete information and justifying this by saying your students should piece things together themselves because such a style mimics how some law firms might operate

But what can you do? You should adjust yourself to the teacher. That's part of the price one pays for going to what's called a TTT school.

[mootness]

I don't even know what legal writing would entail if not to prepare you for practice.

We're all getting tangential. It would entail teaching you legal writing and research.

And why does your professor teach you legal writing and research? To prepare you for practice, not for fun, not for academia.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm saying that you can still teach LRW from the role of a teacher, i.e. focus on giving your students knowledge of these skills pedagogically. What I'm opposed to is the idea of giving scattered, disorganized, incomplete information and justifying this by saying your students should piece things together themselves because such a style mimics how some law firms might operate

But what can you do? You should adjust yourself to the teacher. That's part of the price one pays for going to what's called a TTT school.

Probably not much. The topic we've been discussing for the last few posts is actually a useless point, and I said so when I raised it as a mere theoretical possibility. I don't know why you guys wanted to pursue it further.

[rubberplant2020]

We get it your writing prof is dumb as f, as are most writing profs. If you want a good grade suck up to her, and ask for clarification about everything. If you want a shit grade keep doing what your are doing(median is a shit grade).

Also you can talk shit about her on the evaluation form at the end of the semester.

[Cogburn87]

I dunno, man. Receiving assignments with poor instructions and uncertain expectations happens all the time in practice. Sounds like she's preparing you pretty well.

[pancakes3]

I mean, odds are the OP is overstating things and this is just a manifestation of his realization that he's going to end up median at best in his LRW class despite all his best-laid plans. LRW is terrible across the board but especially terrible because as a 1L, LRW gives confirmation along the way via the drafts that you turn in that you're shitting the bed rather than having grades drop all at once at the end of the year like the other classes.

[mootness]

/

[landshoes]

I attend a T30 Strong Regional

Almost every LRW (LMW) professor I've heard about has similar style including my own. It's just the way it is. At my school students are getting mad and organized but do you really want to be that person? Think about it, her job is to train you on real life, I clerked as a 0L (long story) at a respected law firm in a small city. Every attorney there had the EXACT same style. You don't know what they want or how they want it, you just do what you think you need to do to get by. Often that is the best answer to these problems. You are a professional now, sending that email will hinder you in political ways that are just unnecessary. Play nice, smile and try to figure it out. It is exactly the same in real life.

If she is able to see which papers are yours (there are ways) do you want to be the C in your class for being 'brave'?

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I've decided that I'm going to just send an apology and move on. But I still have to disagree that her job is to train me for real life. I signed up for this program, requesting training in legal writing. But this is a useless point anyway, and I'd only bring it up if I were to file a complaint with other students. Also, I'm curious about what LRW instructors at T10 schools are like. Anyone know firsthand?

Sure. At UChicago the LRW teaching position is part of a highly competitive fellowship called the Bigelow Fellowship. It provides a year of full support (meaning a decent full-time salary) that is renewable for a second year. LRW is the teaching fellow's main teaching responsibility, and their sole teaching responsibility in their first year. However, teaching fellows do have research and job-search-related responsibilities in addition to teaching. Sometimes the fellows are gone a lot when they are interviewing for jobs, which can be annoying. Generally, teaching seems to be heavily prioritized by the faculty here. It seems like that focus carries over into the hiring and selection of our LRW fellows. Students participate in the selection process, although I don't know how seriously they take our impressions/comments. I haven't heard anything negative about anyone's Bigelow fellow's teaching ability and my fellow in particular seems to enjoy teaching and interacting with students.

[landshoes]

I mean, odds are the OP is overstating things and this is just a manifestation of his realization that he's going to end up median at best in his LRW class despite all his best-laid plans. LRW is terrible across the board but especially terrible because as a 1L, LRW gives confirmation along the way via the drafts that you turn in that you're shitting the bed rather than having grades drop all at once at the end of the year like the other classes.

Why are people assuming I'm a "he"?

are you not a guy?

[mootness]

I attend a T30 Strong Regional

Almost every LRW (LMW) professor I've heard about has similar style including my own. It's just the way it is. At my school students are getting mad and organized but do you really want to be that person? Think about it, her job is to train you on real life, I clerked as a 0L (long story) at a respected law firm in a small city. Every attorney there had the EXACT same style. You don't know what they want or how they want it, you just do what you think you need to do to get by. Often that is the best answer to these problems. You are a professional now, sending that email will hinder you in political ways that are just unnecessary. Play nice, smile and try to figure it out. It is exactly the same in real life.

If she is able to see which papers are yours (there are ways) do you want to be the C in your class for being 'brave'?

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I've decided that I'm going to just send an apology and move on. But I still have to disagree that her job is to train me for real life. I signed up for this program, requesting training in legal writing. But this is a useless point anyway, and I'd only bring it up if I were to file a complaint with other students. Also, I'm curious about what LRW instructors at T10 schools are like. Anyone know firsthand?

Sure. At UChicago the LRW teaching position is part of a highly competitive fellowship called the Bigelow Fellowship. It provides a year of full support (meaning a decent full-time salary) that is renewable for a second year. LRW is the teaching fellow's main teaching responsibility, and their sole teaching responsibility in their first year. However, teaching fellows do have research and job-search-related responsibilities in addition to teaching. Sometimes the fellows are gone a lot when they are interviewing for jobs, which can be annoying. Generally, teaching seems to be heavily prioritized by the faculty here. It seems like that focus carries over into the hiring and selection of our LRW fellows. Students participate in the selection process, although I don't know how seriously they take our impressions/comments. I haven't heard anything negative about anyone's Bigelow fellow's teaching ability and my fellow in particular seems to enjoy teaching and interacting with students.

Wow...

[landshoes]

Yeah, we are pretty spoiled. The fellows also get money from the school to do social activities with us which is nice.

(I should note that the activities are optional, but generally fun)

[totesTheGoat]

LRW is terrible across the board but especially terrible because as a 1L, LRW gives confirmation along the way via the drafts that you turn in that you're shitting the bed rather than having grades drop all at once at the end of the year like the other classes.

My experience was opposite. My LRW was a ton of busywork for 8 weeks followed by a hastily marked up closed memo/brief for a participation grade, and then we were dumped into the deep end for the open memo/brief. Everything except the final memo/brief was for participation only. We were never in a position of not knowing the requirements of the assignment, and the "we're unorganized because that's how law practice is" BS wouldn't fly.

[A. Nony Mouse]

TBF, I interned for a judge who had hired 2 Chicago 1Ls as interns the previous summer and they had done such a terrible job of writing anything he nearly gave up on hiring interns at all. One of my comrade interns that same year was a Chicago student who said that her Bigelow taught her nothing, and in fact, the third quarter they met twice - once to get the assignment and once to turn it in. So I would not presume that all Bigelows are incredibly dedicated to teaching (or know anything about how to do it). The situation is the same at the top schools as at the lesser - luck of the draw.

Also, while there are plenty of bad LRW profs, I think one of the problems is that lots of students who go to law school are the type who wrote pretty intuitively in college, and who could pull an all-nighter to write something the night before it was due and get an A, and that doesn't usually work with legal writing, because it's not intuitive. Learning a new writing style/format can be a bit like learning a new language. Again, that's not to say that no LRW prof needs to improve their teaching, but sometimes it's just that legal writing doesn't make a lot of sense when you first encounter it.

[Lawdork]

What i hate about LRW is the fellows grading teh citations. Miss a space or period and the whole damn citation is WRONG

[Joscellin]

Huh, I really liked my legal writing prof and feel like I've gotten a lot out of the class.

Suppose it's different place to place.

[fats provolone]

OP you seem a little aspie and control freakish. maybe worry less about whether other ppl are doing their jobs properly and just keep your head down and do the best you can.