1L Exam Q&A Forum

[anon180]

Most Profs are pretty predictable for the main subjects if you get ahold of a few old exams (assuming they aren't a new prof who never taught that course before). I doubt any of you would forget this, but just don't forget the IRAC and study and come on you got this man. Just don't fall asleep in the middle of it or mix up crimpro with civpro and you'll be fine. If you get super lucky you will get midterms but most places don't do that to you. Trust me, once you get to scholarly writing type classes with asinine papers due each day.....you'll miss this. Lesser of evils and what such.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

Fear is the mind killer etc.

M/C questions are still just applying law to fact. You prep for them the same way and the prof writes them to test in the same way. You'll be ready.

you're so positive

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

my profs won't give practice exams out until end of classes. and my school doesn't have an exam bank

[DJM]

i really really really really hope i don't get any multiple choice questions on exams

all my professors told us there will be a MC section on the exams. its the first year they are doing this so there aren't any on the past exams....

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

i really really really really hope i don't get any multiple choice questions on exams

all my professors told us there will be a MC section on the exams. its the first year they are doing this so there aren't any on the past exams....

at least with essay questions i can maybe stumble upon a credited response while bullshitting. with MC, if i don't know it then i don't know it.

[DJM]

i really really really really hope i don't get any multiple choice questions on exams

all my professors told us there will be a MC section on the exams. its the first year they are doing this so there aren't any on the past exams....

at least with essay questions i can maybe stumble upon a credited response while bullshitting. with MC, if i don't know it then i don't know it.

true. in civ pro the other day we got a couple sample MC questions and they were all basically trick questions and only a couple people got them right so thats gonna suck

[Effingham]

Had multiple choice on a few exams last year, professor told us the average on one of them and it was 8/16, I wouldn't stress too much because the curve will probably be low. But, yeah, they are usually some of the most random challenging points of law, difficult to study for.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

again, only like 2 weeks in so I'm talking out my ass mostly, but i feel like class is a tremendous waste of time. i was able to get some outlines from people who aced the class last year, and class material hasn't changed over the past year. short of the prof pulling a new rule of law straight out of his ass in class, i feel like class is kind of pointless. i feel like time would be better spent if i just skipped class and spent time memorizing the outlines and looking up sections of the subject i don't fully understand.

i get that some profs have their idiosyncrasies but how idiosyncratic can you get with the elements of battery? again, 2 weeks in so I'm talking out of my ass. i mean, i guess at some point during the semester prof can say "i don't like policy answers!" or some shit like that but i feel like those are things i can just get from friends. and plus the outlines I've gotten have really helpful notes about what the prof does or doesn't like already on them... i guess id feel guilty not attending class after spending so much $$$. i will still go to class. just venting.

[thesealocust]

again, only like 2 weeks in so I'm talking out my ass mostly, but i feel like class is a tremendous waste of time. i was able to get some outlines from people who aced the class last year, and class material hasn't changed over the past year. short of the prof pulling a new rule of law straight out of his ass in class, i feel like class is kind of pointless. i feel like time would be better spent if i just skipped class and spent time memorizing the outlines and looking up sections of the subject i don't fully understand.

i get that some profs have their idiosyncrasies but how idiosyncratic can you get with the elements of battery? again, 2 weeks in so I'm talking out of my ass. i mean, i guess at some point during the semester prof can say "i don't like policy answers!" or some shit like that but i feel like those are things i can just get from friends. and plus the outlines I've gotten have really helpful notes about what the prof does or doesn't like already on them... i guess id feel guilty not attending class after spending so much $$$. i will still go to class. just venting.

Class can definitely be pointless, but you don't need extra time to memorize rules, so it's not like you gain anything by skipping it. If you understand how law school courses work, how the U.S. legal system works, and how law school exams work, you can ace your exams after like 48-72 hours of studying with a good old outline. Cases, reading, class discussion, supplements, making your own outline - all that stuff is unnecessary.

...but that's a lot of "if" statements. Nobody was born "thinking like a lawyer." Reading cases, discussing them in class, and outlining is not an efficient way to prepare for the exam, but if you skip it all entirely, you run the risk of having your skills of argumentation, issue spotting, and analysis being underdeveloped.

As far as professor idiosyncrasies, battery is simple but some things are very complex. If your civ pro professor has a specific way of looking at how to perform analysis under the Erie Doctrine, then you need to learn it well and use it on the exam to maximize the points you get.

Classes also start slow. The amount of substantive doctrine you cover in the first two weeks could easily fit in a day or less of class time by the time Thanksgiving rolls around. A lot of the cases you look at early on are just to familiarize you with the subject matter, the legal system, and how obnoxiously dense and obscure and old cases can be. Because professors enjoy the suffering of others.

[BVest]

Fear is the mind killer etc.

M/C questions are still just applying law to fact. You prep for them the same way and the prof writes them to test in the same way. You'll be ready.

Plus, as tricky as 1L multiple choice can be, they're a mere prelude to the MBE.

FYI, if you're prof gives you sample MC questions, assume that the real ones will be harder. If they'd felt that the sample questions were good enough, they would have protected them for use on an exam.

The time I felt least deceived about the MC on the exam was the one prof who didn't give us any sample questions, but instead said there were "1/3 that everyone should get, 1/3 that the bulk of the class should get, and 1/3 that only a minority of you will get; I've never had anyone get them all right, but each year there's a couple people who only miss one or two." His exam was exactly as described, and unlike others with MC questions, he didn't hide the ball at all.

ETA: As for going to class, that's pretty much how I learned all I needed to know. I did probably 60% of the readings and never took reading notes. I took copious class notes and distilled those into my outlines. I didn't use supplements except in areas where reviewing my class notes didn't clarify an unclear concept. And realistically, the burden of going to class and paying attention for a whopping 3 hours a day is extremely low.

[Attax]

If it is at all relevant, and you can type fast enough, write it down. Frequently, 20 pages of mediocre word vomit will lead to a better grade than 3 pages of concise, excellent legal analysis.

Yep. One caveat: a lot of students word vomit by dumping background law and/or repeating facts, so professors will often caution against it or even rail against long exams. But if you're actually writing dense analysis and not just spewing laws/facts in a blind panic, even professors that warn about long exams generally grade them favorably.

This. I had a prof with warnings from older students that he docks for long exams. I wrote about 7,000 words and ended up with an A. To compete with my anecdote, a friend dumped 1,200 words and also got an A. I was nervous about writing a lot, but it was my strategy, and it worked. Although it may have been excessive from what the prof was looking for, it still got me a good grade. If you leave before time is up, you're only hurting your grade. Just be sure that every rule you state has analysis with it. Even if you're dismissing an issue, don't just say "the rule against perpetuities doesn't apply." Walk me through why it doesn't apply.

If you just hit points that apply, here may be what you get:

Rule A:
Element 1
Element 2
Element 3
Rule B:
Element 1
Element 2
Factor 1

But, if you also address why certain things don't apply (for example, why it was just an assault and not battery), you may have this much about the law out there:

Rule A:
Element 1
Element 2
Element 3
Rule B:
Element 1
Element 2
Factor 1
Rule C:
Element 1
Element 2
Rule D:
Element 1
Factor 1
Factor 2

etc.

I'd also add, that during many exams I thought something didn't apply, and then as I was analyzing it and going through the facts, I realized that it did in fact apply. If I had just said it didn't and didn't analyze it, I likely would have missed it.

Any suggestions for finals that are closed book/closed note (nothing but your brain)? This is for contracts and torts. I have supplements the professors wrote to study from, would these be more or less important than the case books (also written by the professors). Any study techniques your guys recommend?

Also fro civ pro is E.E. the way to go? For civ pro I get to bring anything to the exam. Is a 'pre-written answer' outline the best option or is it too time consuming to make one?

Study the same. Do all the practice exams. I had closed book for torts and felt it was my best exam after civpro.
The day before the exam, I didn't do any practice exams, any clarifying, nothing substantive. All I did was I took blank paper, and tried to copy my outline word for word. I did this for hours until I could word vomit my entire outline onto a piece of paper. Then, I condensed that to minor points (example: Battery is (a) contact that (b) causes harm OR emotional disturbance. Policy: society values autonomy of body, harm to it violates that. Additionally: contact can be with something closely associated to the person like a plate (some case name here) but not a car). This really helped me be certain I knew everything backwards and forward.

[thesealocust]

I'd also add, that during many exams I thought something didn't apply, and then as I was analyzing it and going through the facts, I realized that it did in fact apply. If I had just said it didn't and didn't analyze it, I likely would have missed it.

Yep, this is huge. It can be easy to miss issues if you just go with what jumps out at you from the facts - it's by stepping through each bit of analysis, and trying to really find ways to make the rules you've learned apply to the facts, that you can squeeze out extra lines of analysis (read: points).

[Attax]

I'd also add, that during many exams I thought something didn't apply, and then as I was analyzing it and going through the facts, I realized that it did in fact apply. If I had just said it didn't and didn't analyze it, I likely would have missed it.

Yep, this is huge. It can be easy to miss issues if you just go with what jumps out at you from the facts - it's by stepping through each bit of analysis, and trying to really find ways to make the rules you've learned apply to the facts, that you can squeeze out extra lines of analysis (read: points).

This guy is good at helping you get points. Take his course.

I wish I could write a more eloquent review, but that's already been done. I don't want to give away everything he taught me, but your best resource for Exam Q&A is paying for his course and spamming his inbox.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

are profs giving midterms trying to be humane

[thesealocust]

Yep. Often they think they're doing a great service by introducing you to exams and (marginally) pulling back the veil compared to your other professors.

I don't know if it's an outright conspiracy or just a coincidence, but it's very common for any given 1L to have exactly one professor who gives a midterm or two first semester.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

Yep. Often they think they're doing a great service by introducing you to exams and (marginally) pulling back the veil compared to your other professors.

I don't know if it's an outright conspiracy or just a coincidence, but it's very common for any given 1L to have exactly one professor who gives a midterm or two first semester.

i have no idea how much this is worth though. doesn't say on the syllabus. im fucking praying that it's not worth much.

[CaptainJapan]

...moving this question to this thread

This is a pretty general question that I'm sure "depends" a lot on how individual professors write their exams, but I thought I'd at least see what people had to say.

I'm wondering to what extent professors expect you to understand rules/applications that aren't covered in assigned readings and class discussions. I'm asking because it seems like any time you are covering a topic, say unilateral contracts, you may read only about acceptance and notice of acceptance...and never discuss anything else. Obviously there are a ton of layers to each assigned topic that can be pulled back for hours and hours.

My question is do most professors just implicitly expect you to fill in those gaps in the syllabus on your own? Is it expected that rules not contained in assigned reading will show up on exams?

[thesealocust]

...moving this question to this thread

This is a pretty general question that I'm sure "depends" a lot on how individual professors write their exams, but I thought I'd at least see what people had to say.

I'm wondering to what extent professors expect you to understand rules/applications that aren't covered in assigned readings and class discussions. I'm asking because it seems like any time you are covering a topic, say unilateral contracts, you may read only about acceptance and notice of acceptance...and never discuss anything else. Obviously there are a ton of layers to each assigned topic that can be pulled back for hours and hours.

My question is do most professors just implicitly expect you to fill in those gaps in the syllabus on your own? Is it expected that rules not contained in assigned reading will show up on exams?

There is no it depends here, this is clear as day: if it wasn't assigned as reading and/or discussed, it it irrelevant and you will piss off your professor if you try to apply it on an exam.

[A. Nony Mouse]

This can be the problem with relying on supplements without keying everything closely to your readings/discussions - you might start throwing in material your prof didn't cover, and - which you can't know ahead of time - your prof actually disagrees with.

[CaptainJapan]

This can be the problem with relying on supplements without keying everything closely to your readings/discussions - you might start throwing in material your prof didn't cover, and - which you can't know ahead of time - your prof actually disagrees with.

This is exactly the experience that prompted the question...flipping through supplements. Nice that there's a clear cut answer, thanks.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

i may have gone overboard with buying supplements

[MurdockLLP]

Thank you SeaLocust for your 1L guidance as always!

All of my professors have copies of their practice exams in their offices (they are not stored at the library). I asked a 2L TAing my writing class about getting copies of these exams (not to practice yet, just to get a feel for what the professor is looking for on exams [MC, how many hypos, curveballs]) and he said I should just wait till closer to the final. Are my professors going to be pissed if I ask to see the exams 3 weeks into class?

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

Thank you SeaLocust for your 1L guidance as always!

All of my professors have copies of their practice exams in their offices (they are not stored at the library). I asked a 2L TAing my writing class about getting copies of these exams (not to practice yet, just to get a feel for what the professor is looking for on exams [MC, how many hypos, curveballs]) and he said I should just wait till closer to the final. Are my professors going to be pissed if I ask to see the exams 3 weeks into class?

unless it's against the school rules or something, id insist on getting it.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't think a prof would be pissed if you asked (don't insist), but they'll probably tell you the same thing. If they control when the exams are released they may not want them out until later in the semester. (They may not yet have decided what the format will be, frankly.) Doesn't hurt to ask but you might get turned down.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

i sometimes sit in class and look around. and i try to see if i can guess who will be at the top after exams. my guess is the quiet dude who never says shit in class except every now and then to drop gems of scholarship.

also, today my profs confirmed that they want that IRAC format. I've seen CREAC thrown around TLS as well. but i think IRAC seems simpler