It's only orientation...and I'm having a meltdown? Forum

[ilikebaseball]

I don't think OP should drop out necessarily, but he's gonna more than likely have to put in the serious hours considering that the only feasible way for him to benefit from law is to finish top 5 in the class.

You could probably put less pressure on yourself and have a life if you dropped out and retook the LSAT. However, you were a member on TLS before you committed. You knew the implications. You knew the employment rates (hopefully). So the fact that, at orientation, they are saying you have to put in ridiculous hours to become successful shouldnt be all THAT shocking to you. I agree.... 80 is too much. But its still gonna be enough to take you away from your life.

[PepperJack]

I don't think OP should drop out necessarily, but he's gonna more than likely have to put in the serious hours considering that the only feasible way for him to benefit from law is to finish top 5 in the class.

You could probably put less pressure on yourself and have a life if you dropped out and retook the LSAT. However, you were a member on TLS before you committed. You knew the implications. You knew the employment rates (hopefully). So the fact that, at orientation, they are saying you have to put in ridiculous hours to become successful shouldnt be all THAT shocking to you. I agree.... 80 is too much. But its still gonna be enough to take you away from your life.

I think the drop out advice is related to how shitty the school is, and the fact they seem immature. This is amplified by the fact that it seems they might not be happy even if they win. It's sort of like is someone spent all their money on a lottery ticket, but the lottery winner only wins an inalienable race car, and the person spending all their money on the ticket doesn't have a driver's license.

[Nucky]

Can someone name off the schools so we don't all have to dig through OP's post history?

Yeah, I'm being lazy. So what?

[ilikebaseball]

Can someone name off the schools so we don't all have to dig through OP's post history?

Yeah, I'm being lazy. So what?

Either one of Akron or Toledo. Couldnt really distinguish between the two, but it sorta doesnt matter anyway for the argument.

[Mal Reynolds]

You are having a breakdown because you've made a terrible life decision and your body is trying to tell you what your mind refuses to command: drop out & retake

Come on. This person should have done that, but you know that's not why. They clearly wanted to avoid a gap year, because school seemed like a safe idea, and they're coming to the realization that law school isn't going to be the three year asylum they had thought it would. Compared to college, law school is going to be a lot of work, and then practice is going to be even more work. Once he's there, he really should be studying 60 hours a week, because it maximizes the chances that they do well. In addition to this, they should definitely go to counseling, because they seem especially likely to get psyched out and fall apart. A therapist would identify this risk, and work on cognitive responses to the stress. It is important that this person recognizes that the real world is a lot of work in or out of law, and that their fear should not be having to work hard, but that they set themselves up in a place where working hard is over 50% likely not to produce any positive results. Many people work hard and have good personal lives, and relationships. In all honesty, the type of people who require so much attention that you can't work hard and be close to them are likely not good people to get close to.

[bjsesq]

You've made a huge mistake. Drop out. Teach Yoga or something. It's true law school doesn't require those hours but practice requires that or more. If you're freaking out now it will only get worse.

Again, I disagree. Although admittedly a small sample, the people I have met in big law from lower ranked schools can run circles around me in terms of stamina, and I have a good work ethic. The people saying you don't need to work 60 hours a week should keep in mind that OP needs to be #1 or #2 in their class to get what you would consider a good outcome. They can't chill and pull median.

Which means your chances are so dismal that you need to drop out. Thanks for the help.

[PepperJack]

You've made a huge mistake. Drop out. Teach Yoga or something. It's true law school doesn't require those hours but practice requires that or more. If you're freaking out now it will only get worse.

Again, I disagree. Although admittedly a small sample, the people I have met in big law from lower ranked schools can run circles around me in terms of stamina, and I have a good work ethic. The people saying you don't need to work 60 hours a week should keep in mind that OP needs to be #1 or #2 in their class to get what you would consider a good outcome. They can't chill and pull median.

Which means your chances are so dismal that you need to drop out. Thanks for the help.

Right but if they don't they need to go full throttle. The worst thing to do is to stay and scrape by. The 3 possibilities in order of what should be chosen are:

1.) Drop out
2.) Study 80 hours a week
3.) Listen to the masses saying at their t-14 they didn't work very hard and did median or better, and got a good job

While 1.) is clearly the best thing to do head and shoulders above 2.), 2.) is significantly better than 3.) if the person is at a shitty school. The boasting you here from young associates at work about how they partied all the time, and had a great time aren't coming from the associates who went to a TT/TTT.

[Mal Reynolds]

You've made a huge mistake. Drop out. Teach Yoga or something. It's true law school doesn't require those hours but practice requires that or more. If you're freaking out now it will only get worse.

Again, I disagree. Although admittedly a small sample, the people I have met in big law from lower ranked schools can run circles around me in terms of stamina, and I have a good work ethic. The people saying you don't need to work 60 hours a week should keep in mind that OP needs to be #1 or #2 in their class to get what you would consider a good outcome. They can't chill and pull median.

Which means your chances are so dismal that you need to drop out. Thanks for the help.

Right but if they don't they need to go full throttle. The worst thing to do is to stay and scrape by. The 3 possibilities in order of what should be chosen are:

1.) Drop out
2.) Study 80 hours a week
3.) Listen to the masses saying at their t-14 they didn't work very hard and did median or better, and got a good job

While 1.) is clearly the best thing to do head and shoulders above 2.), 2.) is significantly better than 3.) if the person is at a shitty school. The boasting you here from young associates at work about how they partied all the time, and had a great time aren't coming from the associates who went to a TT/TTT.

[PepperJack]

Mal, you'd be a pleasure at a negotiating table.

[NYCFAN1]

Can someone name off the schools so we don't all have to dig through OP's post history?

Yeah, I'm being lazy. So what?

Either one of Akron or Toledo. Couldnt really distinguish between the two, but it sorta doesnt matter anyway for the argument.

OP, drop out immediately.

[Mal Reynolds]

Mal, you'd be a pleasure at a negotiating table.

I'm sorry to say you don't seem intelligent enough to ever be at one.

[Attax]

Or OP could just drop out and stop having tunnel vision.

[PepperJack]

Mal, you'd be a pleasure at a negotiating table.

I'm sorry to say you don't seem intelligent enough to ever be at one.

There is a strong correlation between a person's quickness to toss out volatile insults, and personality disorders. From looking at a few of your posts you might want to work on this if you're hoping to have an extended career.

[mephistopheles]

Mal, you'd be a pleasure at a negotiating table.

I'm sorry to say you don't seem intelligent enough to ever be at one.

There is a strong correlation between a person's quickness to toss out volatile insults, and personality disorders. From looking at a few of your posts you might want to work on this if you're hoping to have an extended career.

zing!

[DELG]

Observation, not insult, PepperJack is not a bright fellow.

Luckily you don't have to be all that bright to sit at a negotiations table, so it's moot.

[PepperJack]

Observation, not insult, PepperJack is not a bright fellow.

Luckily you don't have to be all that bright to sit at a negotiations table, so it's moot.

Who appointed you the judge and jury? I've been sensitive about my IQ ever since the funds group at Schulte, Roth and Zabel said they only hire from the top 1%. In addition to commenting about how Schulte is far and away the most prestigious firm in the midtown area from blocks 53 to 58 on the east side (assuming that we pretend Latham does not exist), OP is already enrolled, moved in, and very mathematically unlikely to drop out even if it's the right thing to do. Therefore, it's more helpful to provide an ordering of decisions than to be oblivious to the individual.

[BankruptMe]

OP, just breath...its going to be ok.

60-80 hours is a lot of hours. I think I have been putting in about 35-40 of pure study. I am not in as dire a situation as you, but for me it is either Top 1/3, Transfer or I am unemployed. So I need grades just as bad as you. I am 1.5 weeks ahead in my reading and am starting to prep for midterms in a month.

Remember, that 60-80 hours may include watching tv while studying, taking 30 min breaks, eating food etc.

But honestly, what did you expect when you signed up? I just read a dated article about Harvey Miller (my fave lawyer) and he is 75 still clocking in all-nighters at Weil....soooooo I dont see why 60-80 hours of work is scary to you. Would you be saying this if you were in medical school? They work even harder.

I think you need to toughen up.

[Cogburn87]

OP, just breath...its going to be ok.

60-80 hours is a lot of hours. I think I have been putting in about 35-40 of pure study. I am not in as dire a situation as you, but for me it is either Top 1/3, Transfer or I am unemployed. So I need grades just as bad as you. I am 1.5 weeks ahead in my reading and am starting to prep for midterms in a month.

Remember, that 60-80 hours may include watching tv while studying, taking 30 min breaks, eating food etc.

But honestly, what did you expect when you signed up? I just read a dated article about Harvey Miller (my fave lawyer) and he is 75 still clocking in all-nighters at Weil....soooooo I dont see why 60-80 hours of work is scary to you. Would you be saying this if you were in medical school? They work even harder.

I think you need to toughen up.

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.

[PepperJack]

OP, just breath...its going to be ok.

60-80 hours is a lot of hours. I think I have been putting in about 35-40 of pure study. I am not in as dire a situation as you, but for me it is either Top 1/3, Transfer or I am unemployed. So I need grades just as bad as you. I am 1.5 weeks ahead in my reading and am starting to prep for midterms in a month.

Remember, that 60-80 hours may include watching tv while studying, taking 30 min breaks, eating food etc.

But honestly, what did you expect when you signed up? I just read a dated article about Harvey Miller (my fave lawyer) and he is 75 still clocking in all-nighters at Weil....soooooo I dont see why 60-80 hours of work is scary to you. Would you be saying this if you were in medical school? They work even harder.

I think you need to toughen up.

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.

The dumbest thing to do is cross out the toughening up. Even if they drop out (which they should), they need to toughen up. The reason they were having a breakdown wasn't because they saw the jobs data. It was because they were intimidated by the skewl component.

[jbagelboy]

OP, just breath...its going to be ok.

60-80 hours is a lot of hours. I think I have been putting in about 35-40 of pure study. I am not in as dire a situation as you, but for me it is either Top 1/3, Transfer or I am unemployed. So I need grades just as bad as you. I am 1.5 weeks ahead in my reading and am starting to prep for midterms in a month.

Remember, that 60-80 hours may include watching tv while studying, taking 30 min breaks, eating food etc.

But honestly, what did you expect when you signed up? I just read a dated article about Harvey Miller (my fave lawyer) and he is 75 still clocking in all-nighters at Weil....soooooo I dont see why 60-80 hours of work is scary to you. Would you be saying this if you were in medical school? They work even harder.

I think you need to toughen up.

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.

The dumbest thing to do is cross out the toughening up. Even if they drop out (which they should), they need to toughen up. The reason they were having a breakdown wasn't because they saw the jobs data. It was because they were intimidated by the skewl component.

your contrarian shtick has run its unmemorable course. stop trying to stubbornly counter the only relevant advice

[TTRansfer]

I did about 40-60 in 1L per week. After I got my 1L grades, I stopped giving a fuck.

Had my best semester since 1L (my last 3L semester). Guess what? I didn't even go to class more than a handful of times for some of them.

The only time you really need to work hard is 1L. That's it.

[PepperJack]

OP, just breath...its going to be ok.

60-80 hours is a lot of hours. I think I have been putting in about 35-40 of pure study. I am not in as dire a situation as you, but for me it is either Top 1/3, Transfer or I am unemployed. So I need grades just as bad as you. I am 1.5 weeks ahead in my reading and am starting to prep for midterms in a month.

Remember, that 60-80 hours may include watching tv while studying, taking 30 min breaks, eating food etc.

But honestly, what did you expect when you signed up? I just read a dated article about Harvey Miller (my fave lawyer) and he is 75 still clocking in all-nighters at Weil....soooooo I dont see why 60-80 hours of work is scary to you. Would you be saying this if you were in medical school? They work even harder.

I think you need to toughen up.

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.

The dumbest thing to do is cross out the toughening up. Even if they drop out (which they should), they need to toughen up. The reason they were having a breakdown wasn't because they saw the jobs data. It was because they were intimidated by the skewl component.

your contrarian shtick has run its unmemorable course. stop trying to stubbornly counter the only relevant advice

I'm not countering the advice, and agree they should drop out. But if you read their post history you would find it obvious that OP is terribly intense, and makes life decisions based on what they feel they should do without the maturity to think and plan effectively. This combination is bad, and won't magically go away once he drops out of law school with 40k in debt. If he's there and can't get a refund then they should be gunning as hard as possible to either transfer out, or get a full ride. The 20 hour stuff that some of us needed to get grades won't apply to someone who never went out in college, and had a 2.8.

[Paul Campos]

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.[/quote]
The dumbest thing to do is cross out the toughening up. Even if they drop out (which they should), they need to toughen up. The reason they were having a breakdown wasn't because they saw the jobs data. It was because they were intimidated by the skewl component.[/quote]

your contrarian shtick has run its unmemorable course. stop trying to stubbornly counter the only relevant advice[/quote]
I'm not countering the advice, and agree they should drop out. But if you read their post history you would find it obvious that OP is terribly intense, and makes life decisions based on what they feel they should do without the maturity to think and plan effectively. This combination is bad, and won't magically go away once he drops out of law school with 40k in debt. If he's there and can't get a refund then they should be gunning as hard as possible to either transfer out, or get a full ride. The 20 hour stuff that some of us needed to get grades won't apply to someone who never went out in college, and had a 2.8.[/quote]


Stop giving horrible advice. The OP is currently three days into classes, so he can still get a full refund. More important, this "if you're going to stay then study 60 hours a week so you can have a good shot of being one of the top five people in your class" nonsense is based on the idea that getting top grades in law school is based on how hard you study, which in my experience (25 years of teaching) is almost completely untrue once people are past a certain minimal threshold that's way, way less than that.

[PepperJack]

OP needs to drop out. Any other advice is fucking reprehensible.

The dumbest thing to do is cross out the toughening up. Even if they drop out (which they should), they need to toughen up. The reason they were having a breakdown wasn't because they saw the jobs data. It was because they were intimidated by the skewl component.[/quote]

your contrarian shtick has run its unmemorable course. stop trying to stubbornly counter the only relevant advice[/quote]
I'm not countering the advice, and agree they should drop out. But if you read their post history you would find it obvious that OP is terribly intense, and makes life decisions based on what they feel they should do without the maturity to think and plan effectively. This combination is bad, and won't magically go away once he drops out of law school with 40k in debt. If he's there and can't get a refund then they should be gunning as hard as possible to either transfer out, or get a full ride. The 20 hour stuff that some of us needed to get grades won't apply to someone who never went out in college, and had a 2.8.[/quote]


Stop giving horrible advice. The OP is currently three days into classes, so he can still get a full refund. More important, this "if you're going to stay then study 60 hours a week so you can have a good shot of being one of the top five people in your class" nonsense is based on the idea that getting top grades in law school is based on how hard you study, which in my experience (25 years of teaching) is almost completely untrue once people are past a certain minimal threshold that's way, way less than that.[/quote]
My logic was the reverse of that, Paul. Not if they study a lot, they'll have a good shot.

[sublime]

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