Should I drop out? Crappy grades @ T14 paying sticker Forum

[shredderrrrrr]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

Are you last in your class? Do you understand the competition for jobs?
If it helps, yes, big law is off the table for your GPA.
You should get some counseling and take time to get back on track.
But you sound like you don't want to take advice.
You post about how confused and beat up you are, but now you want to know if you can still get a job that will eat you up?

For whatever it's worth, a 2.9 might not be as bad as it sounds. It's hard to use GPA across different schools. Median at my school, for instance, is under 2.9. We have a B- curve.

I don't know of any T10 school that has a curve that low. I'm pretty sure a 2.9 at any T10 is probably bottom 10-15%.

I have no idea why any school would have a curve that low.

But yeah, I'm assuming OP is in the bottom third.

[rad lulz]

.

[ymmv]

You have a very bad GPA and by the time you figure out if you've struck out at OCI you'll have paid third semester tuition

DROP OUT

Better to talk with the Dean about dropping out conditionally. Some of them are actual human beings and more than willing to give tuition refunds in these cases if spoken to ahead of time.

OCI is at least worth a shot in this case.

[Ruxin1]

Hey all. I've been struggling with my decision about whether to stay in law school or not (or take a leave of absence) and wanted to get some feedback from TLS folks, potentially those who have been in a similar situation. Below median GPA (~2.9). I'm aware of TLS pro-drop out tendencies but really, even when objective factors like a horrible GPA and lots of potential debt make this seem like a no brainer, deciding to cut your losses and leave is still really tough.

Basically I had a really shitty 1L year, due primarily to mental health issues that threw my focus and ability to cope with stress completely out of whack. I came in loving law school and the idea of being a lawyer (but with these aforementioned mental health issues), until my 1st semester grades came back and it was evident that law school had kicked my ass. I did a little bit better 2nd semester but suffered physically and mentally, and still feel completely worn down and like I've had no space to recover since I had to start my summer job.

These all sound like "pro" dropping out reasons. Some reasons for wanting to stay: 1) I still might want to be an attorney (though with my grades, big law is probably out (right?) and I'm not sure what kind of PI/gov work I want to do) and found my classes interesting; 2) I've made some friends here, and my SO is here; 3) I'm expected to be in a leadership position and on a journal next year; 4) my family is super proud of me and I really hate the idea of letting them, or myself, down; 5) see 4 but with respect to friends. 6) I have no idea what I'd do for a job/career after this summer, or even where I would go.

Cut my losses and leave? Take a leave of absence?
Is taking a leave and coming back career suicide? If I did come back, is my 1L GPA going to preclude me from getting any job capable of paying back these loans? If people here have dropped out/taken a leave after 1L, what did you end up doing?

Any advice sincerely appreciated.

TL;DR: I'm at a T14, and think I still want to be a lawyer or at least earn a JD, but 1L kicked my ass and I'm hurting, physically and mentally. What do I do?

For whatever it's worth, I had to make a similar decision and thus sympathize with you. My first semester kicked my ass and I immediately thought of dropping out. My fiancee convinced me to keep going, so I gave the second semester a chance. It went better, but was still not as successful as I felt it could have been. I wanted to drop out (but had no idea what else I would do!). Despite having been a good student prior to law school and loving what I was learning at law school, it seemed I wasn't cut out for it. What saved me? I had a job lined up that summer and I decided to do it as planned. The job showed me that I wanted to be a lawyer. Despite shitty grades, I learned that I wanted the end product. My 2L year was fantastic. Somehow, I turned everything around and made a huge jump in class rank.

The reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't imagine a bigger difference between the two years. I don't know how your school works specifically, but 2L was much more manageable for me for a variety of reasons: I got to pick my classes, I got pick when I took my finals, most classes weren't curved, and I was comfortable with the whole law school process after 1L year. Also, a bad 1L year is not the end of the world. I went from around median to well within the top third without changing anything I was doing--I'm thinking maybe other people stopped trying as hard? So you can turn it around--it's easier than you'd expect. The question is just whether the goal is worth it to you.

TL;DR: If you want to be a lawyer, keep going--it can get much better.

TBF aren't you on a full ride? His debt is ballooning.

[rpupkin]

The reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't imagine a bigger difference between the two years. I don't know how your school works specifically, but 2L was much more manageable for me for a variety of reasons: I got to pick my classes, I got pick when I took my finals, most classes weren't curved, and I was comfortable with the whole law school process after 1L year. Also, a bad 1L year is not the end of the world. I went from around median to well within the top third without changing anything I was doing--I'm thinking maybe other people stopped trying as hard? So you can turn it around--it's easier than you'd expect. The question is just whether the goal is worth it to you.

TL;DR: If you want to be a lawyer, keep going--it can get much better.

TBF aren't you on a full ride? His debt is ballooning.

Also, there is a big difference between being "around median" at the end of 1L and being at or near the bottom of the class. I, too, thought that Shredderrrrrr's inspirational story was a little misleading for the OP.

[shredderrrrrr]

The reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't imagine a bigger difference between the two years. I don't know how your school works specifically, but 2L was much more manageable for me for a variety of reasons: I got to pick my classes, I got pick when I took my finals, most classes weren't curved, and I was comfortable with the whole law school process after 1L year. Also, a bad 1L year is not the end of the world. I went from around median to well within the top third without changing anything I was doing--I'm thinking maybe other people stopped trying as hard? So you can turn it around--it's easier than you'd expect. The question is just whether the goal is worth it to you.

TL;DR: If you want to be a lawyer, keep going--it can get much better.

TBF aren't you on a full ride? His debt is ballooning.

Also, there is a big difference between being "around median" at the end of 1L and being at or near the bottom of the class. I, too, thought that Ruxin1's inspirational story was a little misleading for the OP.

Man, TLS's memory never ceases to amaze me. Yes, I am on a full-ride. I admit that such a factor--along with being around median after 1L vs. bottom of the class--makes for a different set of circumstances. I was just trying to convey that things can improve and not to lose faith if the end goal is worth it. Obviously there will be challenges with respect to both finding a job and paying off loans, but I was just trying to add a positive note to consider in what is an otherwise gloomy situation.

I suppose I should have been more clear in my circumstances. My mistake. Nevertheless OP, don't think you can't improve your situation. Will it cost you a lot of money? Yep. Will you be competing for biglaw jobs? Not likely. But you can improve your grades and get a legal job if it's worth it to you.

Edit: Just went back and saw how much debt we are talking about. Without the prospect of biglaw, that is a frightening amount to hope to pay back. Think long and hard about your priorities OP. Best of luck!

[Ohiobumpkin]

You have a very bad GPA and by the time you figure out if you've struck out at OCI you'll have paid third semester tuition

DROP OUT

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm concerned that your SO might be part of the problem. To what extent is that relationship impacting your performance? Furthermore, if you take a leave of absence or dropout, what is the likelihood that your SO will want to stay with you?

What about the OP suggested any issues with the SO?

[whatdoido]

The reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't imagine a bigger difference between the two years. I don't know how your school works specifically, but 2L was much more manageable for me for a variety of reasons: I got to pick my classes, I got pick when I took my finals, most classes weren't curved, and I was comfortable with the whole law school process after 1L year. Also, a bad 1L year is not the end of the world. I went from around median to well within the top third without changing anything I was doing--I'm thinking maybe other people stopped trying as hard? So you can turn it around--it's easier than you'd expect. The question is just whether the goal is worth it to you.

TL;DR: If you want to be a lawyer, keep going--it can get much better.

TBF aren't you on a full ride? His debt is ballooning.

Also, there is a big difference between being "around median" at the end of 1L and being at or near the bottom of the class. I, too, thought that Ruxin1's inspirational story was a little misleading for the OP.

Man, TLS's memory never ceases to amaze me. Yes, I am on a full-ride. I admit that such a factor--along with being around median after 1L vs. bottom of the class--makes for a different set of circumstances. I was just trying to convey that things can improve and not to lose faith if the end goal is worth it. Obviously there will be challenges with respect to both finding a job and paying off loans, but I was just trying to add a positive note to consider in what is an otherwise gloomy situation.

I suppose I should have been more clear in my circumstances. My mistake. Nevertheless OP, don't think you can't improve your situation. Will it cost you a lot of money? Yep. Will you be competing for biglaw jobs? Not likely. But you can improve your grades and get a legal job if it's worth it to you.

Edit: Just went back and saw how much debt we are talking about. Without the prospect of biglaw, that is a frightening amount to hope to pay back. Think long and hard about your priorities OP. Best of luck!

shredderrr, thanks for your encouragement but it's true the debt situation differentiates us pretty greatly. i keep being told (mostly by boomers who don't really know the employment landscape these days) that just having a law degree from (insert school name here) will be a huge leg up and over the long run, everything will work out. maybe, but right now, my prospects for getting that first job that may eventually lead to things "working out" looks pretty grim. and i don't know how much to trust reportage (both negative and positive) on JD advantage positions bc I feel like a lot of that is so circumstantial.


Alsooo ya 2.9 is going to put me near bottom of class, median is like 3.3. NYSprague-- I guess I want to know if big law is out so I don't have to stress about doing all this OCI stuff now, knowing it's a lost cause. That way I can focus on my job and trying to do stuff to feel better (exercise sleep etc etc bc I still feel like a huge mess).

[shredderrrrrr]

If you do decide to drop out, just take care of yourself. There’s no shame in dropping out of law school—especially a prestigious one like you attend. The system is not set up for everyone to succeed in law school and get a job. Don’t let what others say or think stop you from making the choices you need to make. Actually dropping out—if you choose to do so—is the hard part. After that, I’m sure you will find happiness.

Good luck!

[wrapstar]

If your school allows you to take time off, I would definitely do it. During the time off, you could try to get your mental and physical health back in shape. Also, you could start exploring what career opportunities you would have if you were to drop out of law school. This would give you a way better perspective of whether it's worth it to stay or not to stay. For example, if you find a great job, then just keep the job and not go back to law school. If there isn't any job that interests you, then maybe you can give law school more thought.

Also, you should try to push hard for the opportunity to do OCI before taking the leave of absence if that's even a possibility. That would also give you an idea as to your career prospects if you stayed in law school.

Either way, don't stress. You got into a T14 law school. You're obviously a smart dude and will eventually find your way whether you stay or not .