Yale Law School to Offer Ph.D. in Law Forum

[I.P. Daly]

JDs can still go by "Doctor," right?

[bjsesq]

I'm an 0L, so please, have mercy. I have heard that law professors are sometimes terrible at teaching. These professors might publish brilliant papers, but they are unable to effectively teach a class. Perhaps requiring law professors to possess a Ph.D in Law would lead to greater numbers of law professors with better teaching skills.

In general, I've found that my Prof.'s shitty teaching has less to do with ability and more to do with their obscenely large egos telling them they are free to do whatever they want. At least two have openly admitted it.

[dingbat]

JDs can still go by "Doctor," right?

That's even douchier than going by esquire

[SchopenhauerFTW]

inb4 Campos, Leiter, MTal alt.

[spleenworship]

I'm an 0L, so please, have mercy. I have heard that law professors are sometimes terrible at teaching. These professors might publish brilliant papers, but they are unable to effectively teach a class. Perhaps requiring law professors to possess a Ph.D in Law would lead to greater numbers of law professors with better teaching skills.

LOL

[chasgoose]

I don't see what the big deal is. This seems like a better version of the various post-grad positions available at various law schools (Lawyering @ NYU, Bigelow @ Chicago, Climenko @ Harvard, etc.). Except instead of having to spend most of their time teaching inept 1L's how to string words together they get to focus on the things that actually get them jobs in legal academia (publishable work). It's not a money grab since the candidates will get free housing and a living stipend. I can easily see this becoming the most desirable/competitive version of the above mentioned post-grad programs for those who want to do academia.

[ToTransferOrNot]

I don't see what the big deal is. This seems like a better version of the various post-grad positions available at various law schools (Lawyering @ NYU, Bigelow @ Chicago, Climenko @ Harvard, etc.). Except instead of having to spend most of their time teaching inept 1L's how to string words together they get to focus on the things that actually get them jobs in legal academia (publishable work). It's not a money grab since the candidates will get free housing and a living stipend. I can easily see this becoming the most desirable/competitive version of the above mentioned post-grad programs for those who want to do academia.

Maybe. The Yale name might deal with the difference in track record. Even with the stipend, though, you fall short on pay, and the extra year is going to be a drawback for many people.

The materials mention that the PhDs will have teaching opportunities/obligations, but don't do much to clarify. If they have something of a choice, and get to teach classes in their area of research, that could be huge--Bigelows sometimes teach non-LRW classes, but not always.

[BearState]

I wonder if this will become a prerequisite to any legal professor job. Why hire someone with just a JD when you can hire someone with a PhD in Law from Yale?

[Sauer Grapes]

I wonder if this will become a prerequisite to any legal professor job. Why hire someone with just a JD when you can hire someone with a PhD in Law from Yale?

I know that some law schools have a strong preference for PhDs when hiring professors. But usually the PhD is in a different field than law such as economics, finance, philosophy, etc.

[2014]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

[Broseidon]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.

[Doorkeeper]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.

It's a good question. I think Leiter's point on this is well taken, that this PhD is basically the equivalent of a post-JD fellowship/VAP with the degree. It's three years, you take a few seminars, you teach and you write. You already see VAPs and Fellows teaching classes, and I doubt this would be any different since it's a post-JD class.

Also, here's Leiter's response about it. I actually think it's central thesis is a good point.
--LinkRemoved--

[Younger Abstention]

This will no doubt be a great program for aspiring legal academics, and I'm sure admission will be incredibly competitive. This program isn't going to be for people who "couldn't get a job."

[hiima3L]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

[Bildungsroman]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

Lol I'd rather be a Bigelow.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

There will be a number of ways in which students may fulfill the teaching requirement. They may include (1) serving as a teaching assistant for a Law School course; (2) serving as a teaching assistant for a course in Yale College or another school at Yale; (3) co-teaching a class with a faculty member; and, (4) in unusual situations, teaching their own class.

http://www.law.yale.edu/graduate/phd_courseofstudy.htm

Lol I'd rather be a Bigelow.

Yep.

[dextermorgan]

I think this is a brilliant move by Yale.

Oxford has had great success over the years with it's DPhil in Jurisprudence and there's nothing in the US that matches the program. This will only reinforce Yale as the preeminent place to study law for legal academia, and it will better prepare people for legal academia. Nothing prepares an aspiring academic for the life of a professor at a research university more than a dissertation.

Yale is also one of the few schools that can leverage its Top 10 PhD programs in Political Science, Philosophy, History, and Law that can make the PhD worthwhile. For students interested in teaching at a T1 school, the 5-6 combined years this program would take is definitely better than the 7-8 years a typical JD/PhD would take.

Edit- In addition, YLS has really made strides in recent history to hire faculty outside of black letter law. I assume this will only heighten this hiring trend at Yale, which would definitely be for the betterment of the PhD students.

Lol at Yale calling three law review articles a dissertation.

[Doorkeeper]

I think this is a brilliant move by Yale.

Oxford has had great success over the years with it's DPhil in Jurisprudence and there's nothing in the US that matches the program. This will only reinforce Yale as the preeminent place to study law for legal academia, and it will better prepare people for legal academia. Nothing prepares an aspiring academic for the life of a professor at a research university more than a dissertation.

Yale is also one of the few schools that can leverage its Top 10 PhD programs in Political Science, Philosophy, History, and Law that can make the PhD worthwhile. For students interested in teaching at a T1 school, the 5-6 combined years this program would take is definitely better than the 7-8 years a typical JD/PhD would take.

Edit- In addition, YLS has really made strides in recent history to hire faculty outside of black letter law. I assume this will only heighten this hiring trend at Yale, which would definitely be for the betterment of the PhD students.

Lol at Yale calling three law review articles a dissertation.

Yea...well you get hired and tenure at law schools through the strength of your law review articles, so although it's not really fair compared to most PhD dissertations, it makes sense given the market.

[mattviphky]

Does this mean there will be Ph.D students teaching Yale Law classes now instead of legit faculty?

This is a fantastic point.

But they already have the Yale JD, so they are qualified as it stands.