Use first name for Partner/Associates/Recruiter? Forum

[Renzo]

itt: people are stiffs...

...and one poster has poor etiquette.

[062914123]

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[headandshoulderos]

itt: people are stiffs...

...and one poster has poor etiquette.

ok... i'm just saying it works for me. the mr. contingent has basically backed off their original position to just saying, only use mr. if the other person is 20+ years older than you. that can obviously be debated as well, but if you think this is a clear issue with only one true answer then you may be mistaken.

i think the arguments for mr. concede that it devalues yourself in the relationship and sets up a hierarchy. and I strongly disagree with the idea that interviewers should cultivate a perception that they are "kids" with hiring partners. it's not a question of disrespect, it's about confidence and avoiding being overly formal. so many people get dinged on interviewers because they aren't perceived as a good fit. well, if you roll into an office culture where people think mr/ms is antiquated then you are hurting yourself. that's why my position is that it depends on context, but there is no way mr./ms. should be the default.

[headandshoulderos]

itt: people are stiffs

When I read your first response it honestly shocked me that there was someone out there that called their superiors in a business setting by their first name in an initial email/phone call. I happen to also be in California (born and raised in Los Angeles, so not one you considered conservative), and I would never, ever call a superior--especially someone who could hire me or NOT hire me--by their first name without being invited to do so. It would just feel wrong and disrespectful to me.

If you managed to avoid offending anybody by being a "namer," more power to you, but @OP, I think it is definitely a safer bet to use Mr/Ms, excluding the occasional outliers (never encountered one myself) who will absolutely hate it.

in what industry?

[062914123]

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[headandshoulderos]

itt: people are stiffs

When I read your first response it honestly shocked me that there was someone out there that called their superiors in a business setting by their first name in an initial email/phone call. I happen to also be in California (born and raised in Los Angeles, so not one you considered conservative), and I would never, ever call a superior--especially someone who could hire me or NOT hire me--by their first name without being invited to do so. It would just feel wrong and disrespectful to me.

If you managed to avoid offending anybody by being a "namer," more power to you, but @OP, I think it is definitely a safer bet to use Mr/Ms, excluding the occasional outliers (never encountered one myself) who will absolutely hate it.

in what industry?

Mayor's office and law firms.

maybe politics is different, and i guess some firm cultures might be more formal than others. i just think with being overly formal, an interviewer might not be able to picture you working alongside them, which has to happen for you to be offered a job.

[romothesavior]

in what industry?

Look man, you may think we're "stiffs," but you are in a very, very small minority. If there was a poll, I'd imagine close to everyone would disagree with you about using first names to address a partner you don't even know about a job. Every CSO office in the country would tell you you're wrong. Maybe you can get away with callling an associate by their first name in an introductory email, but if you're sending a professional email (or Jesus Christ... a cover letter) to a partner or recruiter, they're your superior and you follow business etiquette.

You ask "What makes "Mr." professional?" I dunno. It it is viewed as respectful and deferential, which is what you should be when looking for a job. What makes wearing a suit to an interview professional? Are you going to show up in a t-shirt and jeans just to show everyone how confident and non-stiff you are?

It's etiquette, you're breaking it, good for you. But don't come in here calling everyone else a "stiff" when you're in exceedingly small minority. And don't give OP bad advice.

[theavrock]

In an Interview/recruiting setting -

Use Mr./Ms. Last Name until told other wise or until they say otherwise. It is as simple as that. As one who has worked in professional settings for some time and hired people, this is the way to do it.

Even in this situation most often times the interviewer will say "Hi there, my name is First Name." Then use their first name. If you already know their name and are the first to talk use Mr./Ms. last name. They will then say call me First Name. If they don't use Mr./Ms.

It's not rocket science.

heads and shoulders is right in the business world everyone uses first names, but this is because you are generally on the same level ie: not a snot nosed law student begging for a jerb. Additionally, often when you are in a business setting you are meeting people and they tell you their first name, which is why you use it.

[vanwinkle]

Moved to an appropriate forum.

[headandshoulderos]

in what industry?

Look man, you may think we're "stiffs," but you are in a very, very small minority. If there was a poll, I'd imagine close to everyone would disagree with you about using first names to address a partner you don't even know about a job. Every CSO office in the country would tell you you're wrong. Maybe you can get away with callling an associate by their first name in an introductory email, but if you're sending a professional email (or Jesus Christ... a cover letter) to a partner or recruiter, they're your superior and you follow business etiquette.

You ask "What makes "Mr." professional?" I dunno. It it is viewed as respectful and deferential, which is what you should be when looking for a job. What makes wearing a suit to an interview professional? Are you going to show up in a t-shirt and jeans just to show everyone how confident and non-stiff you are?

It's etiquette, you're breaking it, good for you. But don't come in here calling everyone else a "stiff" when you're in exceedingly small minority. And don't give OP bad advice.

oP can make their own choices. I'm just presenting my opinion and backing up with some reasoning. I think CSO's generally give poor advice on interview etiquette, fwiw. i would also say that interviewing in a suit shows professionalism enough, and there's no need to lay it on thick with mr./ms. as well. i think the correct answer here is to do what makes you comfortable, because whether or not you are comfortable will come across more than how you use a greeting.

i like your style of argumentation (the sky is falling and everyone who disagrees with me is in the minority because 5 ppl on a forum agree with me) but the facts are that cover letters can sound very professional and respectful with a personal greeting rather than a mr.

we'll never know. but don't jump down my throat for "giving bad advice," we're all adults here (my main point).

i've never been a law firm recruiter, but i've interviewed plenty of folks and nobody ever called me mr., and i never thought they were rude.

i agree with theavrock... and I bet you will find that if you give people a chance to tell you their name (Hi, I'm X. They respond hi, I'm X), they won't say I'm Mr. Stiff in most cases.

[vanwinkle]

in what industry?

Look man, you may think we're "stiffs," but you are in a very, very small minority. If there was a poll, I'd imagine close to everyone would disagree with you about using first names to address a partner you don't even know about a job. Every CSO office in the country would tell you you're wrong. Maybe you can get away with callling an associate by their first name in an introductory email, but if you're sending a professional email (or Jesus Christ... a cover letter) to a partner or recruiter, they're your superior and you follow business etiquette.

This. You're seeking a job in a professional industry, and one that's pretty conservative in hiring practices still. There are certain things you're expected to do, and which automatically make you look lazy or disrespectful when you don't do them. You address people properly as Mr. or Ms. You wear a suit and tie to interviews. You arrive on time. These are things that communicate respect and seriousness, and in this hiring market, you don't do things that send the wrong message.

[vanwinkle]

we'll never know. but don't jump down my throat for "giving bad advice," we're all adults here (my main point).

You're not here anymore. Banned for alting and (looking at post history) trolling.

Probably an alt of 0L too, from the looks of it.

[Renzo]

we'll never know. but don't jump down my throat for "giving bad advice," we're all adults here (my main point).

You're not here anymore. Banned for alting and (looking at post history) trolling.

Probably an alt of 0L too, from the looks of it.

Weird troll, but effective I guess.

[cinephile]

One more story: a friend called a screener interviewer "ms. xxx." She told him after the interview, one-on-one, that she was offended by him referring to her in that way. She may be an extreme case, but I think the general idea is this: people don't like being called old, which some people insinuate from being called by the title mr or ms.

Could it have been that she preferred being called Miss?

[Richie Tenenbaum]

One more story: a friend called a screener interviewer "ms. xxx." She told him after the interview, one-on-one, that she was offended by him referring to her in that way. She may be an extreme case, but I think the general idea is this: people don't like being called old, which some people insinuate from being called by the title mr or ms.

Could it have been that she preferred being called Miss?

Maybe he said ma'am and that's what irked her, don't really remember. But I think she was just an intense person all-around. Def not the norm, but the anecdote wasn't meant to show a norm, just counter the idea that formality is always the safe bet. I think the safe bet is mimicking the level of formality of the other person--which usually in person means first names because that's how at least everyone one of my screeners introduced themselves. Cover letters and initial emails are a whole different story.

Another anecdote: During a dinner during OCI with a few students with some associates and partners from a firm, one student said "sir" to a young partner. His answer was something like:"Christ don't call me sir, you'll make me feel old as shit." He was pretty informal in how he interacted with everyone and it was obvious he wanted people to be less formal with him. This is basic human interaction 101--you fit in with a group by adjusting. Sir/mr. seems to be a good fit for a 60 year old partner. A good chunk of the people I interacted with were younger and seemed much more intent on finding a person they would be able to drink a beer with.

[shock259]

I make up nicknames for partners/judges based on their first names when I mail cover letters. It's pretty time consuming when you are sending out a lot, but it's definitely worth it. It makes them feel all warm inside when they get it.

[094320]

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[Richie Tenenbaum]

I don't think I've ever seen anybody say "m'am" or "sir" outside of jokes with peers or on television shows. Maybe it's a regional thing.

It is (Texas). Not to make it seem like it's the norm to use "ma'm" or "sir" in everyday conversation, but it's not unusual to hear it pretty often.

[romothesavior]

I don't think I've ever seen anybody say "m'am" or "sir" outside of jokes with peers or on television shows. Maybe it's a regional thing.

"
I say sir and ma'am all all the time when I'm waiting tables. And I probably say, "Excuse me, sir? or whatever in limited instances when I'm addressing a stranger.

The "Yes sir" and "Yes ma'am" thing is regional (see: southern, and maybe Midwestern rural), but what else would you say to someone you don't even know?

[dood]

• - i use "mr." and "mrs." in 1st email / cover letter / communication.
  - i use first name afterwards when its a chick.
  - i use "dude" afterwards when its a dude over 40.
  - i use "bro" afterwards when its a dude younger than 40.

just use whatever u'r comfortable with. above all else, people hate posers.

[dood]

The "Yes sir" and "Yes ma'am" thing is regional (see: southern, and maybe Midwestern rural), but what else would you say to someone you don't even know?

sometimes i say "yes sir/ma'am" when i want someone to know im seriously on it but still in a joking manner. other times i yell "ROGER THAT" in the same context.

[MrPapagiorgio]

• - i use "mr." and "mrs." in 1st email / cover letter / communication.
  - i use first name afterwards when its a chick.
  - i use "dude" afterwards when its a dude over 40.
  - i use "bro" afterwards when its a dude younger than 40.

just use whatever u'r comfortable with. above all else, people hate posers.

Word. I also recommend walking into the interview and saying "how you doin boss" and pound the interviewer. And I like to finish with "thanks a lot chief."

[094320]

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[romothesavior]

What if you were trying to get someone's attention? I can't tell you how many times I have to say, "Sir? (pause) Sir? (pause) Uhh... sir???" while I'm serving to get some guy's attention in a respectful manner. I'm not gonna be like "YO DUDE! I'm tryina get cho attenshun!"

[094320]

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