Highlights from today's "Don't drop out" seminar Forum

[jarofsoup]

I have heard some great drop out stories:

One guy had a friend that dropped out and started a internet start up company and made millions.

I interned at a law firm and the lawyer said to me " I went to law school with a lot of lawyers that opened amazing and successful restraunts."

[A'nold]

Think though: if the bottom 50% drop out, top 49% will not be at the bottom of the class, lol.

[Nicholasnickynic]

Maybe the theme wasn't so much insidious as a reflection on who they are able to get on the panel for part 'B'. It came across as kind of depressing.

Honestly, I would have preferred "realistic depression" to "anger at misleading 95% of the people in the room".

I think realistic would have been to advise anyone in the bottom third to think about cutting their losses. I think it gave people false hope. The one guy made it seem like it's a piece of cake to just start your own shingle and go your merry way if you don't get any job offers.

P.s. you want the bottom third to stay there. 30/100 is a lot better than 30/66.

Just saying. Yes, I know I'm a bad person. But I'm trying to support my wife and future family.

As far as I know, we've had at least 6 drop outs in a class of 160ish.

Oh and on the subject of the thread- that's horribly disengenious of the school. I understand their reasons for doing it. And, if tuition was say, 10k a year, I'd completely encourage it. But i mean, with the amount loans typically are... its just.. ergh.

[Nicholasnickynic]

It's hard to believe a school would be so bold. It's pretty much accepted that schools lie about employment statistics to keep you enrolled. Now it seems that they are telling you straight to your face, if you're below median, you're F'd....but please keep giving us tuition money so we can line our own pockets.

Are you suggesting students below median at a T2 don't make big $$$ or find non-biglaw jobs they're passionate about?

Yes. Find me 1 example of someone at t2 below median, who graduated ITE, and is making bank.

[A'nold]

It's hard to believe a school would be so bold. It's pretty much accepted that schools lie about employment statistics to keep you enrolled. Now it seems that they are telling you straight to your face, if you're below median, you're F'd....but please keep giving us tuition money so we can line our own pockets.

Are you suggesting students below median at a T2 don't make big $$$ or find non-biglaw jobs they're passionate about?

Yes. Find me 1 example of someone at t2 below median, who graduated ITE, and is making bank.

Man, why'd you have to go and get all "ITE" on us. Are you trying to tell me that, like the guy that graduated from Golden Gate in the 70's, we can't use "spit and gristle," "tighten up the boot straps," and get to work and make millions through our unparalleled spunk and never give up work ethic?

[rman1201]

It's hard to believe a school would be so bold. It's pretty much accepted that schools lie about employment statistics to keep you enrolled. Now it seems that they are telling you straight to your face, if you're below median, you're F'd....but please keep giving us tuition money so we can line our own pockets.

Are you suggesting students below median at a T2 don't make big $$$ or find non-biglaw jobs they're passionate about?

Yes. Find me 1 example of someone at t2 below median, who graduated ITE, and is making bank.

Man, why'd you have to go and get all "ITE" on us. Are you trying to tell me that, like the guy that graduated from Golden Gate in the 70's, we can't use "spit and gristle," "tighten up the boot straps," and get to work and make millions through our unparalleled spunk and never give up work ethic?

When does ITE end? Can we just drop it starting with... class of 2014?
Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

[Nicholasnickynic]

I did not mean ITE w/ regards to recession as much ITE as in 2011. What I mean is, law school used to be a lot easier to get into, and it took less to get to a big firm. Now-a-days, even before the recession, t2 below median=no big law.

[Nicholasnickynic]

It's hard to believe a school would be so bold. It's pretty much accepted that schools lie about employment statistics to keep you enrolled. Now it seems that they are telling you straight to your face, if you're below median, you're F'd....but please keep giving us tuition money so we can line our own pockets.

Are you suggesting students below median at a T2 don't make big $$$ or find non-biglaw jobs they're passionate about?

Yes. Find me 1 example of someone at t2 below median, who graduated ITE, and is making bank.

Man, why'd you have to go and get all "ITE" on us. Are you trying to tell me that, like the guy that graduated from Golden Gate in the 70's, we can't use "spit and gristle," "tighten up the boot straps," and get to work and make millions through our unparalleled spunk and never give up work ethic?

lol.

[HarlandBassett]

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lolz

[TTH]

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lolz

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[missinglink]

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lolz

I know someone who just dropped out. She seems happier than she has in a good long while.

To be fair, she did quit on her country.

[HarlandBassett]

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lolz

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[Borhas]

Man, why'd you have to go and get all "ITE" on us. Are you trying to tell me that, like the guy that graduated from Golden Gate in the 70's, we can't use "spit and gristle," "tighten up the boot straps," and get to work and make millions through our unparalleled spunk and never give up work ethic?

I think you still probably could, but people think of spunk and work ethic as studying hard for exams or writing a mean memo, when it really means go whore yourself out until you get some opportunity to prove your competence, and at each and every opportunity you outshine every other law student that person's seen... and then after 15 years of that and you can go start your own divorce and DUI practice, and make a nice chunk of change.

[TTH]

Man, why'd you have to go and get all "ITE" on us. Are you trying to tell me that, like the guy that graduated from Golden Gate in the 70's, we can't use "spit and gristle," "tighten up the boot straps," and get to work and make millions through our unparalleled spunk and never give up work ethic?

I think you still probably could, but people think of spunk and work ethic as studying hard for exams or writing a mean memo, when it really means go whore yourself out until you get some opportunity to prove your competence, and at each and every opportunity you outshine every other law student that person's seen... and then after 15 years of that and you can go start your own divorce and DUI practice, and make a nice chunk of change.

All it takes is that one asbestos case. It's like the lawyer's powerball.

(yah, I know all the asbestos stuff is gone/tort reform'd away. )

[gwuorbust]

When does ITE end? Can we just drop it starting with... class of 2014?
Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

lawl school apps being down means nothing. not everyone who applied is accepted. what that means: people with ~143 LSATS and below, for example, are not accepted anywhere.

as the number of applications drops, so to will the minimum to get into law school. so instead of a minimum of 143 in order to fill its class Cooley will drop its minimum to 140. BAM! and their class is filled again. all the other schools do the same thing and BAM! all classes are filled.

the only difference is going to be the quality of people enrolling, not the quantity.

[Kohinoor]

I was there for that seminar and that shit was crazy. Towards the end, career services and a bunch of tenured profs started filing in and standing against the walls of the room. Out of nowhere, the professor on the panel leapt up and began HOWLING

I know that your powers of retention
Are as wet as a warthog's backside
But thick as you are, pay attention
My words are a matter of pride
It's clear from your vacant expressions
The lights are not all on upstairs
But we're talking bling and successions
Even you can't be caught unawares
So prepare for a chance of a lifetime
Be prepared for sensational news
A shining new era
Is tiptoeing nearer
[1L:]
And where do we feature?
[Prof:]
Just listen to teacher
I know it sounds sordid
But you'll be rewarded
When at last I am given my dues
And injustice deliciously squared
Be prepared!

Somebody threw down a zebra carcass and at that point I just took off running.

[A'nold]

I was there for that seminar and that shit was crazy. Towards the end, career services and a bunch of tenured profs started filing in and standing against the walls of the room. Out of nowhere, the professor on the panel leapt up and began HOWLING

I know that your powers of retention
Are as wet as a warthog's backside
But thick as you are, pay attention
My words are a matter of pride
It's clear from your vacant expressions
The lights are not all on upstairs
But we're talking bling and successions
Even you can't be caught unawares
So prepare for a chance of a lifetime
Be prepared for sensational news
A shining new era
Is tiptoeing nearer
[1L:]
And where do we feature?
[Prof:]
Just listen to teacher
I know it sounds sordid
But you'll be rewarded
When at last I am given my dues
And injustice deliciously squared
Be prepared!

Somebody threw down a zebra carcass and at that point I just took off running.

Props on the "but where do we feature" part.

This song is somewhat of an inside joke in my family for various reasons so I very much appreciate the reference.

[mala2]

My law school wouldn't mislead me, would they?

what!? and squeeze more money out of you?

[A'nold]

And..........now Scar's song is in my head. Thanks Kohinoor.

[jeremysen]

Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

Law school apps went down from the highest # of all time (last year) to the 2nd or 3rd highest # of all time.

[rman1201]

Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

Law school apps went down from the highest # of all time (last year) to the 2nd or 3rd highest # of all time.

Decrease in law apps + Legal market recovery = Profit.

I'm not denying there's still an incredibly large glut of law students, but all signs point to things being noticeably better in the coming years.

[gwuorbust]

Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

Law school apps went down from the highest # of all time (last year) to the 2nd or 3rd highest # of all time.

Decrease in law apps + Legal market recovery = Profit.

I'm not denying there's still an incredibly large glut of law students, but all signs point to things being noticeably better in the coming years.

did you even glance at my post?

I will use numbers so it is clear:

2010: 60k(not sure what the exact number was) students apply for 40k spots. All seats are filled.
2011: 55k(just making up this number) apply for 40k spots. ALL SEATS ARE STILL FILLED and the same number of students matriculate.

honestly, its really not that hard to follow. sure few people are applying -- but not everyone gets in. All that happens when slightly fewer people apply is that the TTTT schools lower their standards. Schools like T1,T2,T3 schools are not going to have trouble filling their classes.

[rman1201]

Legal market is starting to recover, law school apps are down...

Law school apps went down from the highest # of all time (last year) to the 2nd or 3rd highest # of all time.

Decrease in law apps + Legal market recovery = Profit.

I'm not denying there's still an incredibly large glut of law students, but all signs point to things being noticeably better in the coming years.

did you even glance at my post?

I will use numbers so it is clear:

2010: 60k(not sure what the exact number was) students apply for 40k spots. All seats are filled.
2011: 55k(just making up this number) apply for 40k spots. ALL SEATS ARE STILL FILLED and the same number of students matriculate.

honestly, its really not that hard to follow. sure few people are applying -- but not everyone gets in. All that happens when slightly fewer people apply is that the TTTT schools lower their standards. Schools like T1,T2,T3 schools are not going to have trouble filling their classes.

Do you have any sort of data to support your assumption that only less qualified students are not applying?

[drmguy]

did you even glance at my post?

I will use numbers so it is clear:

2010: 60k(not sure what the exact number was) students apply for 40k spots. All seats are filled.
2011: 55k(just making up this number) apply for 40k spots. ALL SEATS ARE STILL FILLED and the same number of students matriculate.

honestly, its really not that hard to follow. sure few people are applying -- but not everyone gets in. All that happens when slightly fewer people apply is that the TTTT schools lower their standards. Schools like T1,T2,T3 schools are not going to have trouble filling their classes.

You assume the only thing barring people from going to law school is admission.

I don't think if cooley lowered its standards to admit anyone above 125 and 1.2 GPA that there incoming class would become 500,000 people.

[gwuorbust]

Do you have any sort of data to support your assumption that only less qualified students are not applying?

that is not necessary. I never said it was just less qualified students. Take a school like Emory. They have a cut off at like 166. But they reject thousands of people with scores below that. So lets say they have a 10% reduction in applications across the board. So now instead of their class being made up of 100% students who are only 166+, now their class will be 90% 166+ and 10% 165s. Bam! their class is still filled. This is common sense. Everyone just dips a little lower and then their classes are filled.

The number of applications is going back to 2007 level. I want you to show me which ABA approved schools that couldn't fill all of their seats in 2007. Oh wait, that's right -- all schools have been filling all of their classes for years. The only schools that could have a problem are those that accept EVERYONE who applies. But not even Florida Coastal accepts everyone who applies.