In which we complain about HelLRW Forum

[FunkyJD]

At the end of most legal research courses, the people who think they won (awards for memos/arguments, high grades, etc) are really just broadcasting their misplaced priorities to the world of legal recruiters.

If I ever interview a candidate, any kind of distinction in a 1L research/methods class is an auto-ding.

You've got my attention. Explain why this is.

[kalvano]

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

[Charles Barkley]

Screw ICW workbook online.

[Doritos]

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...

[BruceWayne]

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...

Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.

[vamedic03]

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...

Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.

UVA LRW: Fall - 1 person from each section receives best memo award; Spring - 1 person / section receives best brief award; 1 person / section receives best oral argument

Not worth busting your butt to gun for... grades come first

[BruceWayne]

People get awards? Other than a good grade?

I just discovered this yesterday. Yeah you can totally get an award. Everything is different now...

Only for best brief or best oral argument though--right? Slaving away on your memo won't get you one.

UVA LRW: Fall - 1 person from each section receives best memo award; Spring - 1 person / section receives best brief award; 1 person / section receives best oral argument

Not worth busting your butt to gun for... grades come first

Yeah I'm sorry but I'm just not willing to gun for that. Forget outlining early, forget taking practice exams now, forget staying at the library until close---the ultimate sign of a gunner is going for the best memo award; going for best memo is just insane.

[dailygrind]

It sucks not because it's hard, but because it's inordinately time-consuming. Also, in the time it would have taken me to research this and write the corresponding memo I'm fairly certain I would've finished reading Torts and Crim for the week, fully briefed. FLRW.

You and I go to the same school so I can really really identify with you on this. The memo we have due this week is going to take up an insane amount of time. It's really getting on my nerves because I have reading I need to get done (that I'm more motivated to do because those classes will determine our job prospects) and I just feel like I'm wasting time whenever I work on LRW. I hate to say this but I really may begin to just turn in subpar work in LRW; I need a job first and foremost.

yeah, i dunno if our section has the same memo, but it could take an insane amount of time if i did it to standards. i'm planning on slacking off a bit, but i'm guessing it'll probably take as much time as any 2 other classes.

i am insanely grateful that this shit is pass/fail.

[clintonius]

i am insanely grateful that this shit is pass/fail.

+1. For some reason I had it in my mind that it was graded at our school, and when I got confirmation that it was P/F, I felt much more confident that I'd still want to be alive at the end of the semester.

[Doritos]

Yeah I'm sorry but I'm just not willing to gun for that. Forget outlining early, forget taking practice exams now, forget staying at the library until close---the ultimate sign of a gunner is going for the best memo award; going for best memo is just insane.

I do practice memos after my practice exams when I'm at the library until it closes.

[kalvano]

Seriously, fuck Bing. I'm glad he shot that asshole.

His whole defense should be "he needed killing."

[TTH]

My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr

[BruceWayne]

My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr

[Thirteen]

Seriously, fuck Bing. I'm glad he shot that asshole.

His whole defense should be "he needed killing."

Agreed.

[beach_terror]

My school does LR first semester, LW second semester. LR is graded and on a curve, with a final consisting of shit like explain the difference between sources and bluebooking. Grr

Wow, that sucks. How many credits?

[clintonius]

I wouldn't even know how to begin approaching that prompt. The difference between sources and bluebooking? Like, what's the difference between the case you're looking at and the way you cite it?

[A'nold]

Disco:

I would have felt that way if not for my own experience. I didn't put any extra effort into LRW and won best brief for a state-wide competition (that I did not enter but was entered by a prof) that came with a plaque, distinction at a ceremony, and money award.........

I really didn't put any extra time into it.

[nealric]

Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.

LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.

[Stanford4Me]

Screw ICW workbook online.

+100000000000000000000

[kalvano]

Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.

LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.

All of the sample memos I see in books don't look anything like what we are being told to do.

[bigben]

Sorry to tell you this, but - welcome to the practice of law. That class is what you do in practice. Many lawyers point out that it's the ONLY class that has anything to do with the practice of law.

LRW is to real legal practice as playing Microsoft Flight Simulator is to flying a 747. I love actual legal writing. LRW assignments were probably the most annoying academic assignments I've ever done.

In my experience, legal writing class assignments are basically the same as litigation practice. Roughly the same format, essentially the same process of research and writing, same style, etc. The only difference is that the substance of the class assignments is designed to be a pain in the ass. In practice, the issues are usually more straightforward than that--but certainly not always.

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.

[laborday]

At the end of most legal research courses, the people who think they won (awards for memos/arguments, high grades, etc) are really just broadcasting their misplaced priorities to the world of legal recruiters.

If I ever interview a candidate, any kind of distinction in a 1L research/methods class is an auto-ding.

You've got my attention. Explain why this is.

Same question: please explain why you would auto-ding someone who got a distinction in a 1L research/methods class?

[nealric]

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.

I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).

[savagecheater]

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.

I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).

THIS

[kalvano]

I sort of made it sound if you hate the class you'll hate legal writing in practice. That's not true. Like you, I hated the class but I don't mind it in practice. But that's because I've become used to legal writing, not because the two are different.

I hated it because the issues were always silly and contrived, and you already knew the answer going in. Also, you were evaluated based on whether you italicized periods or not- not whether you made a convincing argument (at least in my LRW class).

That's goddamn right.