Computer for law school Forum

[kalvano]

Someone needs to check out the phrase "conflict of interest" and report back.

[bk1]

Someone needs to check out the phrase "conflict of interest" and report back.

I never understood this jab at the SquareTrade study. They sell warranties, yes, but that would only make them inflate data across the entire range, right? It would still mean that the order is a fair comparison even if it is blown out of proportion a bit.

[sundance95]

Subtract Ideapad failure rates out of there and you'll get a very different number.

You're welcome.

O hai, that's cool, but I was actually yanking RS' chain since he's sick of that graph from the other thread. Thanks though.

BTW, it probably would be a different number, but since we don't actually have those data then we're just speculating on that, aren't we? If anyone has a ThinkPad-specific breakdown I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

[ResolutePear]

Subtract Ideapad failure rates out of there and you'll get a very different number.

You're welcome.

O hai, that's cool, but I was actually yanking RS' chain since he's sick of that graph from the other thread. Thanks though.

BTW, it probably would be a different number, but since we don't actually have those data then we're just speculating on that, aren't we? If anyone has a ThinkPad-specific breakdown I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

[sundance95]

Someone needs to check out the phrase "conflict of interest" and report back.

I never understood this jab at the SquareTrade study. They sell warranties, yes, but that would only make them inflate data across the entire range, right? It would still mean that the order is a fair comparison even if it is blown out of proportion a bit.

This, x 1000^10. It's like saying insurance companies shouldn't be trusted to conduct highway safety studies, when in fact the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is widely acknowledged as a leader in such studies. Why? Because assessing risk of highway safety is their business, literally. Same with Squaretrade and laptops.

[beach_terror]

Subtract Ideapad failure rates out of there and you'll get a very different number.

You're welcome.

O hai, that's cool, but I was actually yanking RS' chain since he's sick of that graph from the other thread. Thanks though.

BTW, it probably would be a different number, but since we don't actually have those data then we're just speculating on that, aren't we? If anyone has a ThinkPad-specific breakdown I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

Are you actually insinuating that Thinkpad failure rates would be the same as Ideapad failure rates?

[sundance95]

Just want to get law school laptop 2.0 on a strong start to 60 pages.

[ResolutePear]

Someone needs to check out the phrase "conflict of interest" and report back.

I never understood this jab at the SquareTrade study. They sell warranties, yes, but that would only make them inflate data across the entire range, right? It would still mean that the order is a fair comparison even if it is blown out of proportion a bit.

Think about this graph for a second: They're showing reliability rates by their claim rates.

I'd agree with you if companies(Apple/Lenovo) did not have their own warranty program which people usually buy in store/online-checkout. This graph is jibberish.

[ResolutePear]

Subtract Ideapad failure rates out of there and you'll get a very different number.

You're welcome.

O hai, that's cool, but I was actually yanking RS' chain since he's sick of that graph from the other thread. Thanks though.

BTW, it probably would be a different number, but since we don't actually have those data then we're just speculating on that, aren't we? If anyone has a ThinkPad-specific breakdown I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

Are you actually insinuating that Thinkpad failure rates would be the same as Ideapad failure rates?

People just don't realize that there is a profound reason why the government and most corporations contract with IBM/Lenovo for Thinkpads for their workforce.

[bk1]

Think about this graph for a second: They're showing reliability rates by their claim rates.

I'd agree with you if companies(Apple/Lenovo) did not have their own warranty program which people usually buy in store/online-checkout. This graph is jibberish.

How does that change anything? Don't most if not all companies have their own warranty programs?

People who buy SquareTrade's warranty are just more concerned about failure than the average user, but I still don't see how it is skewed even if more Apple/Lenovo customers buy from Apple/Lenovo than from SquareTrade.

[ResolutePear]

Think about this graph for a second: They're showing reliability rates by their claim rates.

I'd agree with you if companies(Apple/Lenovo) did not have their own warranty program which people usually buy in store/online-checkout. This graph is jibberish.

How does that change anything? Don't most if not all companies have their own warranty programs?

People who buy SquareTrade's warranty are just more concerned about failure than the average user, but I still don't see how it is skewed even if more Apple/Lenovo customers buy from Apple/Lenovo than from SquareTrade.

Sample size. Squaretrade's sample size is arguably smaller.

[sundance95]

Are you actually insinuating that Thinkpad failure rates would be the same as Ideapad failure rates?

RC fail? I thought I was pretty clear when I said that I can't draw any valid conclusions re Thinkpad failure rates, because we don't have any data on the subject. I can speculate, but that's it.

If forced to speculate, I would guess that the Thinkpad failure rate is less than that of the Ideapads, and I'd probably be right. However, by how much? Enough to put the Asus' behind the ThinkPads? It's just pure conjecture at this point and I prefer to base my decisions on hard data rather than guesswork.

[sundance95]

Think about this graph for a second: They're showing reliability rates by their claim rates.

I'd agree with you if companies(Apple/Lenovo) did not have their own warranty program which people usually buy in store/online-checkout. This graph is jibberish.

How does that change anything? Don't most if not all companies have their own warranty programs?

People who buy SquareTrade's warranty are just more concerned about failure than the average user, but I still don't see how it is skewed even if more Apple/Lenovo customers buy from Apple/Lenovo than from SquareTrade.

\

Sample size. Squaretrade's sample size is arguably smaller.

But still statistically significant, so...

[bk1]

Sample size. Squaretrade's sample size is arguably smaller.

Fair point, but I would trust SquareTrade if they had a decent enough sample size. At a certain point it becomes too small, but I'm not sure if SquareTrade's is small enough to warrant that. Plus I would trust SquareTrade over a company's own internal data because they are biased to make things look better than they are.

That said, I'm too lazy atm to look into SquareTrade's numbers if they even are available.

[sundance95]

People just don't realize that there is a profound reason why the government and most corporations contract with IBM/Lenovo for Thinkpads for their workforce.

Lenovo's government/corporate sales program and warranty services would be a huge part of that, which Asus doesn't offer. Lenovo makes it easy for government and corporate consumers, who want things to just work and don't care as much about cost as the average user. That doesn't mean that Lenovo is the more reliable laptop, and if one buys an Asus and a Squaretrade warranty then you are getting most of those same services anyway.

[sundance95]

Sample size. Squaretrade's sample size is arguably smaller.

Fair point, but I would trust SquareTrade if they had a decent enough sample size. At a certain point it becomes too small, but I'm not sure if SquareTrade's is small enough to warrant that. Plus I would trust SquareTrade over a company's own internal data because they are biased to make things look better than they are.

That said, I'm too lazy atm to look into SquareTrade's numbers if they even are available.

Full PDF available here: --LinkRemoved--.

Synopsis: SquareTrade analyzed failure rates for over 30,000 new laptop computers covered by SquareTrade Laptop Warranty plans and found that one-third of all laptops will fail within 3 years.
Highlights of the study include:
-
Looking at the first 3 years of ownership, 31% of laptop owners reported a failure to SquareTrade. Two-thirds of this failure (20.4%) came from hardware malfunctions, and one-third (10.6%) was reported as accidental damage.
-
Netbooks are projected to have a 20% higher failure rate from hardware malfunctions than more expensive laptop computers.
-
ASUS and Toshiba were the most reliable manufacturers, with fewer than 16% having a hardware malfunction over 3 years.

[beach_terror]

Are you actually insinuating that Thinkpad failure rates would be the same as Ideapad failure rates?

RC fail? I thought I was pretty clear when I said that I can't draw any valid conclusions re Thinkpad failure rates, because we don't have any data on the subject. I can speculate, but that's it.

If forced to speculate, I would guess that the Thinkpad failure rate is less than that of the Ideapads, and I'd probably be right. However, by how much? Enough to put the Asus' behind the ThinkPads? It's just pure conjecture at this point and I prefer to base my decisions on hard data rather than guesswork.

But you also admitted that the Lenovo failure rates are skewed because they include their crappy low end models. That means your "hard data" is flawed in that respect. Therefore, just because Asus is above Lenovo, doesn't mean its true. It could be, but the data is flawed enough to put a higher premium on the "guess work" (ie massive contracting of Thinkpad's for corps and govt work) that you're so determined to avoid.

[sundance95]

But you also admitted that the Lenovo failure rates are skewed because they include their crappy low end models. That means your "hard data" is flawed in that respect. Therefore, just because Asus is above Lenovo, doesn't mean its true. It could be, but the data is flawed enough to put a higher premium on the "guess work" (ie massive contracting of Thinkpad's for corps and govt work) that you're so determined to avoid.

So you are contending that Asus, which is one of if not the leading netbook manufacturer, doesn't make 'crappy low end models'? If anything, as a percentage of total computers sold, Asus probably sells 'crappy low end models' at a much higher rate then Lenovo, which would make Asus' better failure rate even more impressive.

I lol at the assumption that ThinkPad must be the most reliable just because gov and corporate purchasers buy them. Do you think there may be other factors that influence those customers, such as enterprise sales and service for these massive computer fleets? Asus doesn't offer enterprise level sales and service, does that mean that they have a higher failure rate? Can you think of customers that continue purchasing practices out of pure inertia more than government and corporate buyers?

[beach_terror]

But you also admitted that the Lenovo failure rates are skewed because they include their crappy low end models. That means your "hard data" is flawed in that respect. Therefore, just because Asus is above Lenovo, doesn't mean its true. It could be, but the data is flawed enough to put a higher premium on the "guess work" (ie massive contracting of Thinkpad's for corps and govt work) that you're so determined to avoid.

So you are contending that Asus, which is one of if not the leading netbook manufacturer, doesn't make 'crappy low end models'? If anything, as a percentage of total computers sold, Asus probably sells 'crappy low end models' at a much higher rate then Lenovo, which would make Asus' better failure rate even more impressive.

I lol at the assumption that ThinkPad must be the most reliable just because gov and corporate purchasers buy them. Do you think there may be other factors that influence those customers, such as enterprise sales and service for these massive computer fleets? Asus doesn't offer enterprise level sales and service, does that mean that they have a higher failure rate? Can you think of customers that continue purchasing practices out of pure inertia more than government and corporate buyers?

I think you're misunderstanding me, which is probably my fault. I'm trying to say, at minimum, Thinkpad reliability = Asus reliability. The Lenovo data is sharply skewed because of the design gap between Thinkpads and Ideapads. If you've ever come in contact with a Thinkpad... you'd understand where I'm coming from.

and I think we can all agree that lower end computer's are not the subject of this discussion.

P.S. If you've ever worked in IT/have a higher than average understanding of how laptops work, and then looked into how Thinkpad's are made... you'd also see where Pear and myself are coming from.

[zeth006]

Get a light, affordable notebook, preferably 13-14" IMO. If it's a Mac, buy Applecare WITH the box for about $170 on eBay. If it's a PC, buy a Squaretrade warranty.

[Cupidity]

IMO, size matters! The trend in laptops has been towards smaller and smaller screens; I would advise against this for law school. Sure it might be nice to shave the weight off your back, but when it comes time for a final you are going to be thankful for the larger keyboard.

I'd avoid getting a Mac, while the exam software will run on it, it tends to be buggy. Don't throw away 100k on bad software interface.

[bk1]

IMO, size matters! The trend in laptops has been towards smaller and smaller screens; I would advise against this for law school. Sure it might be nice to shave the weight off your back, but when it comes time for a final you are going to be thankful for the larger keyboard.

I'm a big fan of a 1920x1200 display.

[kalvano]

IMO, size matters! The trend in laptops has been towards smaller and smaller screens; I would advise against this for law school. Sure it might be nice to shave the weight off your back, but when it comes time for a final you are going to be thankful for the larger keyboard.

I'd avoid getting a Mac, while the exam software will run on it, it tends to be buggy. Don't throw away 100k on bad software interface.

My 14" Thinkpad has a full size keyboard.

[beach_terror]

IMO, size matters! The trend in laptops has been towards smaller and smaller screens; I would advise against this for law school. Sure it might be nice to shave the weight off your back, but when it comes time for a final you are going to be thankful for the larger keyboard.

I'd avoid getting a Mac, while the exam software will run on it, it tends to be buggy. Don't throw away 100k on bad software interface.

My 14" Thinkpad has a full size keyboard.

I think he was referring to netbooks. Also, even if it has a "full" keyboard, a lot of netbooks don't have the same size palm rests for your hands... which is why I can't use them/I'll never buy one.

[kalvano]

IMO, size matters! The trend in laptops has been towards smaller and smaller screens; I would advise against this for law school. Sure it might be nice to shave the weight off your back, but when it comes time for a final you are going to be thankful for the larger keyboard.

I'd avoid getting a Mac, while the exam software will run on it, it tends to be buggy. Don't throw away 100k on bad software interface.

My 14" Thinkpad has a full size keyboard.

I think he was referring to netbooks. Also, even if it has a "full" keyboard, a lot of netbooks don't have the same size palm rests for your hands... which is why I can't use them/I'll never buy one.

Yeah, Netbooks are not a good idea for school.