1L grades important I know Forum

[270910]

if firm hiring were to pick up this summer, are those 2Ls (rising 3Ls) still in the running for biglaw?

No.

[imchuckbass58]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but I understood that this year a lot of more 2Ls had to find alternatives to biglaw SAs because of the dismal biglaw hiring. Hypothetically, if firm hiring were to pick up this summer, are those 2Ls (rising 3Ls) still in the running for biglaw and now get to use 2 years worth of grades, or are firms more likely to skip the class of 2011 and pick up hiring of 2Ls instead? I honestly don't know how this works.

It depends, my inclination is they are still screwed.

If firms underhired last year (i.e., thought the economy was tanking more than it did) and need more C/O 2011 associates ASAP, they might need to pick up a couple through 3L OCI. Maybe not though, since they could simply un-defer the associates they already have deferred.

A more likely scenario, however, is that they are not super-busy right now, but rather see a slow increase in the amount of work over the next few years. If that's the case, then they will primarily hire 2Ls who will come online in 2012.

[rayiner]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but I understood that this year a lot of more 2Ls had to find alternatives to biglaw SAs because of the dismal biglaw hiring. Hypothetically, if firm hiring were to pick up this summer, are those 2Ls (rising 3Ls) still in the running for biglaw and now get to use 2 years worth of grades, or are firms more likely to skip the class of 2011 and pick up hiring of 2Ls instead? I honestly don't know how this works.

It depends, my inclination is they are still screwed.

If firms underhired last year (i.e., thought the economy was tanking more than it did) and need more C/O 2011 associates ASAP, they might need to pick up a couple through 3L OCI. Maybe not though, since they could simply un-defer the associates they already have deferred.

A more likely scenario, however, is that they are not super-busy right now, but rather see a slow increase in the amount of work over the next few years. If that's the case, then they will primarily hire 2Ls who will come online in 2012.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

The problem with the idea that they overreacted is that what had been the recruiting model wasn't built for even a normal economy. By the time it was 2006 & 2007, it was quite literally built for the securitization boom economy. Salary arms race, massive associate headcount, everything. Think of it like a shark or the Speed bus. It can't slow down, let alone stop.

They don't want 3L's that fell off the track for whatever reason (not called back because of Lehman Week Panic (TM), not given summer offer because of rapidly contracting summer program, no-offered because of overhiring, without job because firm no longer exists, deferred year+). Trust me, I've been looking. There is no 3L hiring even if you have excellent credentials. It just doesn't exist.

That might improve for the Class of 2011, but there are also a hell of a lot more 2011's in bad shape than even the 2010's, so the net result is probably still "no chance."

[Formerbruin]

what happens if you SA for one biglaw company your 2L->3L summer but then get no-offered? i mean, even if a lot of firms were interested in you, you can only SA or one...so does that mean you're up shit creek w/o a paddle as far as getting into biglaw is concerned?

Then you got a glimpse at your dream and are forever shut out. Being no offered was an unpleasant kiss of death in good times, now it's, erm, an altogether too common kiss of death.

Offer rates are high. A 'bad' big law firm this year would have been in the 80% offer range. Some were down around 50%, which is brutal, but not many - and the best still topped 90%, often topped 95% offers.

Actual 3L OCI interview for one of my friends this past fall (one of two she managed to snag):

Big Law Firm Partner (BLFP): Hi, so I'd like to start with a preliminary question: Did you get an offer at Big Law Firm X [which had an offer rate below 70%] last summer?

Student: Well, no, but--

BLFP (interrupting): Thanks for coming in. I don't want to waste your time today.

[270910]

what happens if you SA for one biglaw company your 2L->3L summer but then get no-offered? i mean, even if a lot of firms were interested in you, you can only SA or one...so does that mean you're up shit creek w/o a paddle as far as getting into biglaw is concerned?

Then you got a glimpse at your dream and are forever shut out. Being no offered was an unpleasant kiss of death in good times, now it's, erm, an altogether too common kiss of death.

Offer rates are high. A 'bad' big law firm this year would have been in the 80% offer range. Some were down around 50%, which is brutal, but not many - and the best still topped 90%, often topped 95% offers.

Actual 3L OCI interview for one of my friends this past fall (one of two she managed to snag):

Big Law Firm Partner (BLFP): Hi, so I'd like to start with a preliminary question: Did you get an offer at Big Law Firm X [which had an offer rate below 70%] last summer?

Student: Well, no, but--

BLFP (interrupting): Thanks for coming in. I don't want to waste your time today.

Quoted for heart wrenching tragedy.

I heard in boom times a firm would often give you a 'pretend offer' so that you could try to answer yes to those kinds of questions as you struggled for 3L OCI...

[imchuckbass58]

Quoted for heart wrenching tragedy.

I heard in boom times a firm would often give you a 'pretend offer' so that you could try to answer yes to those kinds of questions as you struggled for 3L OCI...

Yeah, they were called "cold offers" where a firm technically gave you an offer but made it abundantly clear that you were not welcome to accept it.

Then people started accepting their cold offers.