T6, Top ~5%, and thoughts of drop slips dancing in my head. Forum

[let/them/eat/cake]

Beckett walking with a friend across a soccer field on a sunny afternoon, heading for a pub:

Beckett: "It's a beautiful day, isn't it?"
The friend: "Yes, it makes one glad to be alive."
Beckett: "Aw now, I wouldn't go that far.."

[articulably suspect]

Have you considered a career outside of Biglaw?

[clintonius]

We have been told to expect a more "realistic" experience this summer than the normal SA program.

This is intriguing to me, and possibly refreshing. Was this told to you by the firm or your school? Either way, would you mind if I asked which firm it is?

How on earth could it possibly look refreshing? You do realize that 'more realistic' is just a euphemism for 'fewer sweet/opulent perks', right?

Also, TToN: To over-extend your metaphor, the golden ring probably has the inscription "this too shall pass" on it. Everyone has moments of doubt and burnout. You'll feel better after a few days and weeks once this round of misery has passed and the next has started. There will be better and happier and more exciting and less busy moments, and you'll have a lot more control over the process going forward as well. If you can't focus on the future, focus on how temporary the unideal present is.

To add one more cliche to the fire: If you're going through hell, keep going!

Shit. That was supposed to be a PM. OP, obviously I don't want you to disclose the firm here.

Anyways, refreshing in the sense that it indicates the firm is going to be a bit more honest about the way it treats its lawyers. I'm well aware of the euphemism. If it means they're going to give you a preview of what biglaw is actually like, rather than walking you through a screen-saver of heaven, I think that's a refreshing change of pace.

[TheBigMediocre]

You used 'affect' instead of 'effect'. No wonder you got a bad grade!!!

Not to mention he misspelled frustrating.

[doyleoil]

ITT: shockingly unreflective reminders of the boundless narcissism of law students

[ToTransferOrNot]

You used 'affect' instead of 'effect'. No wonder you got a bad grade!!!

Not to mention he misspelled frustrating.

If I had been born before the wide-spread availability of spell-check, I would be looking forward to a career as a bartender.

[A'nold]

You used 'affect' instead of 'effect'. No wonder you got a bad grade!!!

Not to mention he misspelled frustrating.

If I had been born before the wide-spread availability of spell-check, I would be looking forward to a career as a bartender.

Yeah but at least bartenders seem to enjoy their jobs, unlike your prospects.

This is a sad thread, especially since all us potential transfers really respect and listen to you, and especially b/c I've been fighting burnout HARD the last few months. I hope things get better man, hang in there.

[ToTransferOrNot]

You used 'affect' instead of 'effect'. No wonder you got a bad grade!!!

Not to mention he misspelled frustrating.

If I had been born before the wide-spread availability of spell-check, I would be looking forward to a career as a bartender.

Yeah but at least bartenders seem to enjoy their jobs, unlike your prospects.

+1

[Drummingreg]

I don't really know what to us tell you. You have two options.

A) Quit, law is not for you. Look at Demitri Martin. He dropped out of NYU law and now he's got his own show.

B) Nut up, you're top 5% at one of the best schools in the country. Make the next few years your bitch and take your pick of a wide variety of job options.

[bigben]

So, I think I'm losing my mind.

I am getting absolutely battered to hell this quarter. One major grade setback really hammered my psyche, which is part of it, but it is more the relentless workload this quarter. I'm pulling 50 hours weeks and falling behind.

If that was my only issue, I'd be fine. I can handle this kind of work load for a few more weeks until the end of the year.

My problem... I'm horrified about the overall affect it's having on me, when one considers that the prize for winning the law school game--as I largely have, thus far--is ~70 hour workweeks for years, doing work that is less interesting than class work, on a more regimented time scale.

I seriously don't understand. I've pulled 80-hour workweeks since I was in high school, if you consider job + school. For parts of undergrad, I worked 3 jobs while taking 18 credits, and many of those classes were 1-credit classes with 6 hours of rehearsal a week.

If I can't handle 50 hours of pseudo-legal work a week for the limited time frame of a few weeks, how in God's name am I going to handle biglaw?

It's incredibly frusterating. I have been lucky enough to largely win this stupid law school game. I got one bad grade last quarter that may have dropped me out of #1 in my class, but I still have strong grades. I'm lucky enough to go to a better school than I have any business attending--the vast majority of people here are much, much smarter than me, and those who aren't are just somewhat smarter than me. Yet I have an overwhelming desire to throw in the towel, because I don't think I can keep my grades where they are, and even if I do, I'm starting to think I'll last about 3 weeks in the prize at the end of all of this before flaming out.

God damnit.

DUDE. What on Earth are you gunning for? What are you trying to get, seriously? Don't you have a job lined up yet?

I work hard. I grew up working hard. I like working hard. But I'm not going to kill myself over meaningless bullshit. Law school is a joke. I literally did almost nothing all semester, and I'm spending a few days studying for each class. Aiming to get close to median.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Like I said, it isn't like I'm studying a lot. I'm in a lot of "practical skills" classes this quarter. They all have actual projects, with actual deadlines, many of them for real clients. Also, RAing on a deadline. I'm not putting in unnecesary time on studying or anything--in fact, I haven't done the reading for my 'normal' classes for ~2 weeks. It's not a matter of gunning for anything--these are projects that simply need to get done. There's no two ways around it.

Am I gunning for the sake of clerkship applications? Sure, or I was the past two quarters, anyway--there really is no way to "gun" these practical skills courses, though. I shouldn't have taken them this quarter--I knew that I probably wouldn't excel in them the same way I do in essay exam type classes, and that they would (probably) negatively impact my GPA. What I didn't expect was for the "practical skills" classes to essentially blast a gaping hole through whatever confidence I had in re: performing well in my summer job/law being--finally--something I am good at, etc.

The one sub-median grade on a multiple-choice exam just jolted me a bit, but I'll survive, notwithstanding the fact that it will have a negative impact on my clerkship search (if I decide to engage in one). The fact that I'm cratering in a quarter that was built to emulate reality, though, is

[Wooster33]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

[Mr. Pablo]

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

[iamtaw]

someone give this guy a hug

[Wooster33]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

On a serious note, relax but keep on doing what you are doing. You have done outstanding at your T6 and even if you HATE biglaw, that is going to open some doors for you.

[as stars burn]

We have been told to expect a more "realistic" experience this summer than the normal SA program.

This is intriguing to me, and possibly refreshing. Was this told to you by the firm or your school? Either way, would you mind if I asked which firm it is?

How on earth could it possibly look refreshing? You do realize that 'more realistic' is just a euphemism for 'fewer sweet/opulent perks', right?

Also, TToN: To over-extend your metaphor, the golden ring probably has the inscription "this too shall pass" on it. Everyone has moments of doubt and burnout. You'll feel better after a few days and weeks once this round of misery has passed and the next has started. There will be better and happier and more exciting and less busy moments, and you'll have a lot more control over the process going forward as well. If you can't focus on the future, focus on how temporary the unideal present is.

To add one more cliche to the fire: If you're going through hell, keep going!

I honestly couldn't have said that better myself.

[clintonius]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

I agree with you that it's probably beneficial to take time between college and law school, but I'm not sure it provides the specific benefit you suggest it does in terms of discovering whether or not you like the tasks of lawyering. I've been working in an administrative position in a biglaw firm for the last two years, and I'm pretty sure that has fuckall to do with the day-to-day occupations of biglaw attorneys. Paralegals in my firms are somewhat closer, but not an exact replica, and those jobs are extremely hard to come by. Taking time off between your undergrad and law school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any more prepared for what law school entails. (Disclaimer: 0L speaking)

[mikeytwoshoes]

ITT: OP, who is better off than 99.7% of law students and knows it, cries "woe is me" and looks for sympathy because of ONE mediocre grade. Jesus truly weeps.

Jivedouche

[ToTransferOrNot]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

Eh, I'm like a camel. Long periods of time with occasional sips at the pond.

[A'nold]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

I agree with you that it's probably beneficial to take time between college and law school, but I'm not sure it provides the specific benefit you suggest it does in terms of discovering whether or not you like the tasks of lawyering. I've been working in an administrative position in a biglaw firm for the last two years, and I'm pretty sure that has fuckall to do with the day-to-day occupations of biglaw attorneys. Paralegals in my firms are somewhat closer, but not an exact replica, and those jobs are extremely hard to come by. Taking time off between your undergrad and law school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any more prepared for what law school entails. (Disclaimer: 0L speaking)

I would say +1 to post grad work. I would say this for a related but slightly different reason though. Work sucks. Every freaking job sucks. I hate middle managers and corporate america type jobs. They make me sick. I watch the clock for most of the day and can think of nothing else but the second I leave work. It is hell. This applies to basically any job you get with a UG degree and even 10-20 years after you start and "move up the latter" with other career options more suited to independence very hard to come by. With law, however, you have more independence and more respect in general. With a UG job, you are looking at a paralegal kind of job (anything equivalent like accounts payable, admin. assistant, etc) and being crapped on all the time by management. Yes, I get that in biglaw you have partners treating you badly and everything, but unless you've experienced being a peon AP clerk w/ managers yelling at you about your stapling style, you have no idea how different it really is. Plus, most of the time attorneys work at small firms where the attorneys are on more equal footing and you are working for partner, in a more realistic fashion. Plus, opening your own practice is a lot more realistic and a lot less work than opening a restaurant or something and has a lot better chance for success and setting your own hours. I mean, I met a bankruptcy attorney that lived in Seattle and did her stuff from her kitchen table and made something like 100k a year.

[A'nold]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

Eh, I'm like a camel. Long periods of time with occasional sips at the pond.

And gool ole "righty."

[Mr. Pablo]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

I agree with you that it's probably beneficial to take time between college and law school, but I'm not sure it provides the specific benefit you suggest it does in terms of discovering whether or not you like the tasks of lawyering. I've been working in an administrative position in a biglaw firm for the last two years, and I'm pretty sure that has fuckall to do with the day-to-day occupations of biglaw attorneys. Paralegals in my firms are somewhat closer, but not an exact replica, and those jobs are extremely hard to come by. Taking time off between your undergrad and law school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any more prepared for what law school entails. (Disclaimer: 0L speaking)

I agree that the time off wouldn't provide preparation, just perspective on what it is that you like, want, and are happy doing. I think having real work experience provides a sense of what it is to actually devote most of your week doing not necessarily the most satisfying or enriching stuff for the betterment of your boss's life, and like A'nold said, to realize that work really sucks most of the time. At any rate, its hard to really know whether you are going to love a job or hate it.

[A'nold]

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

I agree with you that it's probably beneficial to take time between college and law school, but I'm not sure it provides the specific benefit you suggest it does in terms of discovering whether or not you like the tasks of lawyering. I've been working in an administrative position in a biglaw firm for the last two years, and I'm pretty sure that has fuckall to do with the day-to-day occupations of biglaw attorneys. Paralegals in my firms are somewhat closer, but not an exact replica, and those jobs are extremely hard to come by. Taking time off between your undergrad and law school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any more prepared for what law school entails. (Disclaimer: 0L speaking)

I agree that the time off wouldn't provide preparation, just perspective on what it is that you like, want, and are happy doing. I think having real work experience provides a sense of what it is to actually devote most of your week doing not necessarily the most satisfying or enriching stuff for the betterment of your boss's life, and like A'nold said, to realize that work really sucks most of the time. At any rate, its hard to really know whether you are going to love a job or hate it.

Another thing that people don't usually realize is that, like you said, you are going to be devoting a serious portion of your life to work. I mean, talk about a waste of time when you are helping out some kind of company. It really does nothing to make your time fulfilling. At least as a lawyer you are using your brain and the work is often interesting. Much less so when you are doing a very company specific kind of job.

[clintonius]

Get laid man.

Seriously.

Credited

The fact that this "credited" comes from the target of the suggestion makes my soul hurt.

This is why people should take some time between UG and LS. Taking some time to learn what you actually like doing is invaluable. There isn't any happiness to be found in the concept of a career, it lies in the activities of the career. You may love furniture, but do you love cutting and gluing wood? The same goes for being a lawyer. You may love the concept of being a lawyer, but do you love sitting on your ass reading and analyzing text? You must love the actual, physical actions that define your career.

I agree with you that it's probably beneficial to take time between college and law school, but I'm not sure it provides the specific benefit you suggest it does in terms of discovering whether or not you like the tasks of lawyering. I've been working in an administrative position in a biglaw firm for the last two years, and I'm pretty sure that has fuckall to do with the day-to-day occupations of biglaw attorneys. Paralegals in my firms are somewhat closer, but not an exact replica, and those jobs are extremely hard to come by. Taking time off between your undergrad and law school doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any more prepared for what law school entails. (Disclaimer: 0L speaking)

I would say +1 to post grad work. I would say this for a related but slightly different reason though. Work sucks. Every freaking job sucks. I hate middle managers and corporate america type jobs. They make me sick. I watch the clock for most of the day and can think of nothing else but the second I leave work. It is hell. This applies to basically any job you get with a UG degree and even 10-20 years after you start and "move up the latter" with other career options more suited to independence very hard to come by. With law, however, you have more independence and more respect in general. With a UG job, you are looking at a paralegal kind of job (anything equivalent like accounts payable, admin. assistant, etc) and being crapped on all the time by management. Yes, I get that in biglaw you have partners treating you badly and everything, but unless you've experienced being a peon AP clerk w/ managers yelling at you about your stapling style, you have no idea how different it really is. Plus, most of the time attorneys work at small firms where the attorneys are on more equal footing and you are working for partner, in a more realistic fashion. Plus, opening your own practice is a lot more realistic and a lot less work than opening a restaurant or something and has a lot better chance for success and setting your own hours. I mean, I met a bankruptcy attorney that lived in Seattle and did her stuff from her kitchen table and made something like 100k a year.

Agreed. I would like to point out that there is a partner at my firm who has gone after *attorneys* for their stapling style. And no, I'm not kidding. But I do understand what you're saying and I'm with you.