deletd Forum

[03152016]

I am by no means a JohannDeMann apologist, but I do question if he was really, "literally making up numbers to convince people to go to law school".

you must be new here

[Ron Howard]

I am by no means a JohannDeMann apologist, but I do question if he was really, "literally making up numbers to convince people to go to law school".

you must be new here

Please enlighten me. I would like a full profile of the subject, one JohannDeMan. Or at least the highlights.

[thesealocust]

this thread is going places

[Elston Gunn]

ya I'm pretty sure he was literally making up numbers, but I still recommend chillage about the whole thing

[BigZuck]

I am simply contributing to this thread as you are, Zuck. But if it really means that much to you, say the word and I will restrain my self from continuing to post in this thread.

Ok, yeah, that's enough, I'm going to go ahead and say the word now.

[Johann]

Re the 300k
Based on the post I remember vaguely arguing about this guy who wanted to make 125k with his own firm. He said he had contacts and could drum up business and was a smart business man. I cautioned him that starting your own law firm is usually either go big or go home as in you're done here within a couple years without fraction of you comfortable exceed the 125 he wanted. Maybe my statement meant he would be closer to 300 than 125 as in somewhere in the 200s. Maybe my statement meant that the only solos I've seen go it have either crashed and burned out of done well. If I count now I can probably find about 20 people I know who started their own firms. Many have failed - prolly half, but the successful ones I know salary numbers of I still haven't met one practitioner not banking 200 k by year 3 that stayed in business. Not a huge sample size but obviously relevant if I have never met one and I know more than a handful and my sample size is as large as your random aba thing too.

Your numbers on the other hand are no better than law school bullshit. So many confounding factors I've pointed out with the only reliable number probably being the IRS number in a place where people try to push their income down aggressively. And if you think the partners in Skadden in NYC dent the fucking national avg of partners in 2-4 partner firms then you are clueless. I think that 300k with a number at 350k is a pretty fair consideration based on my personal experience and the stats.

[Johann]

Actually I think the 300k may have been a reference to the divorce firm I'm intimately familiar with saying they were on track for 300k per partner. I don't know. I never said 300k was average. Just that if you make it 300k is very reasonable. Multiply by 200*46*30 and see what you get.

[BigZuck]

Re the 300k
Based on the post I remember vaguely arguing about this guy who wanted to make 125k with his own firm. He said he had contacts and could drum up business and was a smart business man. I cautioned him that starting your own law firm is usually either go big or go home as in you're done here within a couple years without fraction of you comfortable exceed the 125 he wanted. Maybe my statement meant he would be closer to 300 than 125 as in somewhere in the 200s. Maybe my statement meant that the only solos I've seen go it have either crashed and burned out of done well. If I count now I can probably find about 20 people I know who started their own firms. Many have failed - prolly half, but the successful ones I know salary numbers of I still haven't met one practitioner not banking 200 k by year 3 that stayed in business. Not a huge sample size but obviously relevant if I have never met one and I know more than a handful and my sample size is as large as your random aba thing too.

Your numbers on the other hand are no better than law school bullshit. So many confounding factors I've pointed out with the only reliable number probably being the IRS number in a place where people try to push their income down aggressively. And if you think the partners in Skadden in NYC dent the fucking national avg of partners in 2-4 partner firms then you are clueless. I think that 300k with a number at 350k is a pretty fair consideration based on my personal experience and the stats.

You aren't privy to the salary info of any solos you silly billy. Come on.

[03152016]

Re the 300k
Based on the post I remember vaguely arguing about this guy who wanted to make 125k with his own firm. He said he had contacts and could drum up business and was a smart business man. I cautioned him that starting your own law firm is usually either go big or go home as in you're done here within a couple years without fraction of you comfortable exceed the 125 he wanted. Maybe my statement meant he would be closer to 300 than 125 as in somewhere in the 200s. Maybe my statement meant that the only solos I've seen go it have either crashed and burned out of done well. If I count now I can probably find about 20 people I know who started their own firms. Many have failed - prolly half, but the successful ones I know salary numbers of I still haven't met one practitioner not banking 200 k by year 3 that stayed in business. Not a huge sample size but obviously relevant if I have never met one and I know more than a handful and my sample size is as large as your random aba thing too.

Your numbers on the other hand are no better than law school bullshit. So many confounding factors I've pointed out with the only reliable number probably being the IRS number in a place where people try to push their income down aggressively. And if you think the partners in Skadden in NYC dent the fucking national avg of partners in 2-4 partner firms then you are clueless. I think that 300k with a number at 350k is a pretty fair consideration based on my personal experience and the stats.

the thread is right here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=242966
he said absolutely nothing about having any "contacts" before you made your ridiculous 300k claim. so that's a lie
you never once said that half of the solos you know crashed and burned
and you didn't say he'd land "somewhere in the 200s," (which is also questionable) you said, verbatim: "I mean if you make it to year 3 odds are youll be pulling in close to 300k."

e: actually i take it back i don't think you have bad intentions
but you've posted things that are pretty out there and have the potential to really screw up some people's lives imo

[03152016]

and i worked in a solo divorce firm

[Johann]

Give me your number homeboy who wanted 125 could expect? It's easy to call someone else's number wrong without venturing your own speculation.

[Elston Gunn]

JFC brut:

You would be fucking up big time to become a lawyer. You're looking at 3 years of work to learn the ropes making about 50k a year, and then hoping you can somehow go out on a limb and open your own practice. That means at age 53 you are basically betting everything that you can succeed on your own shop. If your shop is successful, sure you can make $300k+ a year after 2-3 years of building your shop, but the timing of the risk seems much crazier, and the capital you will have accrued seems minor.

OH THE MOTHERFUCKING HORROR LOOK AT THAT EVIL ADVICE

[03152016]

yes that was definitely the tone of his posts in that thread!
i can tell you are very perceptive and will THRIVE in this profession!

[Johann]

So after all this time we basically agree about the facts it just comes down to risk tolerance.

[03152016]

seriously? the 300k number still came out of thin air. just admit it. you keep changing your story about how you got there anyways

[El Pollito]

v mentally stable

[Elston Gunn]

Brut does it ever bother you that you imitate the general TLS schtick about everything and yet no one properly appreciates your poasting?

[03152016]

who had their post history nuked by the mods again

[Johann]

.

[artistar]

My answer: Yes, this place is filled with a lot of elitist advice. I've seen threads where people are telling others to not go to, say, the #11 USN rated school because it's a waste of time and money. The advice is always to study more and snag that 174+ LSAT and attend a top 5 with a fully funded scholarship. What a pipe dream. I think TLS advice is sometimes helpful, but oftentimes self-serving. If you want to knock out your competition tell everyone else law school is not for them.

[El Pollito]

who had their post history nuked by the mods again

What are you talking about?

prob being a psycho re. me

[03152016]

yea what a psychotic thing to do rite!

[Elston Gunn]

My answer: Yes, this place is filled with a lot of elitist advice. I've seen threads where people are telling others to not go to, say, the #11 USN rated school because it's a waste of time and money. The advice is always to study more and snag that 174+ LSAT and attend a top 5 with a fully funded scholarship. What a pipe dream. I think TLS advice is sometimes helpful, but oftentimes self-serving. If you want to knock out your competition tell everyone else law school is not for them.

How certain are you that graduating from Michigan with $275k-$300k debt is a good life plan?

[03152016]

what i don't understand is that you keep talking about how terrible it is to go into law
but then act like it's a great solution for an underemployed 22 year old liberal arts grad
ignoring 3 yrs of opportunity costs

almost all of my friends majored in lib arts or performing/visual arts
and almost all of them are doing fine financially and in jobs a fuckton more fulfilling than law

[03152016]

@artistar
zero self-interest
almost all of the regular on-topic posters do it b/c they benefitted from the boards and are paying it forward