Thinkpad v. Mac for law school Forum

[d34d9823]

You guys are students have access to the internet, right? Well - what the hell are you guys doing paying for software?

FTFY

[03121202698008]

Give Windows a bit more credit than that - you have to actually access the corresponding files and replace them.

DEFINITELY give Linux more credit than that: If you've lost your root password, you're not getting it. Just shoot yourself. But besides, I wasn't even talking about gimmicks using disks... why would I be carry those disks around with me 24/7? This is a simple reboot into single user, do some dirty work, and back out.

Uh, you can boot single user mode on an *nix system (including linux) and change the root password. You just have to specify the correct runlevel in grub or lilo. It's not encryption and not designed to prevent physical access to the system...neither is Mac's BSD implementation. You don't have to replace any files with windows. I fix PCs and everything up to and including Window 7 can be reset with a boot cd. I do it all the time when I do work for businesses that no longer know their administrator passwords.

If you want security on any *nix, OSX, or Windows you need to encrypt the root volume and then there is NO recovery if you forget your password.

If you've forgotten your Windows password and you're on a domain, you should contact your system administrator to reset your password. If you're not on a domain, you can reset your password by using a password reset disk or by using an administrator account.

or any of these simple options:
http://4sysops.com/archives/three-ways- ... -password/

Not to mention that the hard drive is unencrypted and can just be popped into another system or enclosure and all of your data read.

[ResolutePear]

Give Windows a bit more credit than that - you have to actually access the corresponding files and replace them.

DEFINITELY give Linux more credit than that: If you've lost your root password, you're not getting it. Just shoot yourself. But besides, I wasn't even talking about gimmicks using disks... why would I be carry those disks around with me 24/7? This is a simple reboot into single user, do some dirty work, and back out.

Uh, you can boot single user mode on an *nix system (including linux) and change the root password. You just have to specify the correct runlevel in grub or lilo. It's not encryption and not designed to prevent physical access to the system...neither is Mac's BSD implementation. You don't have to replace any files with windows. I fix PCs and everything up to and including Window 7 can be reset with a boot cd. I do it all the time when I do work for businesses that no longer know their administrator passwords.

If you want security on any *nix, OSX, or Windows you need to encrypt the root volume and then there is NO recovery if you forget your password.

I understand what you're saying and agree, but you're taking my scenario and running half way across the state with it. i.e. I don't walk around with recovery/liveCDs in my back pocket.

[03121202698008]

Give Windows a bit more credit than that - you have to actually access the corresponding files and replace them.

DEFINITELY give Linux more credit than that: If you've lost your root password, you're not getting it. Just shoot yourself. But besides, I wasn't even talking about gimmicks using disks... why would I be carry those disks around with me 24/7? This is a simple reboot into single user, do some dirty work, and back out.

Uh, you can boot single user mode on an *nix system (including linux) and change the root password. You just have to specify the correct runlevel in grub or lilo. It's not encryption and not designed to prevent physical access to the system...neither is Mac's BSD implementation. You don't have to replace any files with windows. I fix PCs and everything up to and including Window 7 can be reset with a boot cd. I do it all the time when I do work for businesses that no longer know their administrator passwords.

If you want security on any *nix, OSX, or Windows you need to encrypt the root volume and then there is NO recovery if you forget your password.

I understand what you're saying and agree, but you're taking my scenario and running half way across the state with it. i.e. I don't walk around with recovery/liveCDs in my back pocket.

You may. The USB drive on my keyring is setup to boot to the Trinity Rescue Kit which will reset passwords or allow to mount and read data without logging into windows at all. My point being, if anyone has physical access to your system it doesn't matter...

[03121202698008]

Also, to those talking about installing OSX on PCs...it's not that easy. If you look at the OSx86 projects page you'll see that very few systems work 100% especially laptops. Only one I saw allowed sleep/hibernate to work and wifi didn't work on that one.

[ResolutePear]

Also, to those talking about installing OSX on PCs...it's not that easy. If you look at the OSx86 projects page you'll see that very few systems work 100% especially laptops. Only one I saw allowed sleep/hibernate to work and wifi didn't work on that one.

Well, few prebuilt systems - it's usually the motherboard that stamps it out. It works on the Dell Mini 10, if you're into that type of stuff.

[jdubb990]

What do you guys think about the Toshiba R series?

[03121202698008]

Also, to those talking about installing OSX on PCs...it's not that easy. If you look at the OSx86 projects page you'll see that very few systems work 100% especially laptops. Only one I saw allowed sleep/hibernate to work and wifi didn't work on that one.

Well, few prebuilt systems - it's usually the motherboard that stamps it out. It works on the Dell Mini 10, if you're into that type of stuff.

Actually, only the 10V works relatively flawlessly but it is now discontinued and not sold by Dell. The 10v "Nickelodeon" currently sold has a different chipset and is not supported.

Edit: The Nick version may or may not be supported...conflicting posts about it's display hardware.

[Duralex]

Yep, OSx86 on laptop hardware is really best for fun or experimentation at the moment. There are a number of desktop configurations that are known to be rock-solid, however. Hopefully these sorts of clues are permissible: google "kakewalk gigabyte minimal effort".

[03121202698008]

Yep, OSx86 on laptop hardware is really best for fun or experimentation at the moment. There are a number of desktop configurations that are known to be rock-solid, however. Hopefully these sorts of clues are permissible: google "kakewalk gigabyte minimal effort".

It's only a matter of time until Apple shuts them down though. They recently sued and shut down Pystar's Rebel EFI which started the whole Hackintosh ability.

[burvowski]

Yep, OSx86 on laptop hardware is really best for fun or experimentation at the moment. There are a number of desktop configurations that are known to be rock-solid, however. Hopefully these sorts of clues are permissible: google "kakewalk gigabyte minimal effort".

It's only a matter of time until Apple shuts them down though. They recently sued and shut down Pystar's Rebel EFI which started the whole Hackintosh ability.

Wrong. Hackintosh was around long before Pystar, which most certainly did NOT start the hackintosh movement. They shut down Pystar because they were selling hackintosh computers. I don't think they are going to go after the Hackintosh community, and even if they did, it would be extremely hard to shut it down. How would they go about doing that? There's no centralized site or company behind all of that.

It would be like trying to stop people from sneaking food into the movie theater. Sure, you could try to go after individuals doing it, but A) there's no single group that's doing it all that you could go after, and B) is it worth the effort of trying to stop the occasional person from doing that?

[ResolutePear]

Yep, OSx86 on laptop hardware is really best for fun or experimentation at the moment. There are a number of desktop configurations that are known to be rock-solid, however. Hopefully these sorts of clues are permissible: google "kakewalk gigabyte minimal effort".

It's only a matter of time until Apple shuts them down though. They recently sued and shut down Pystar's Rebel EFI which started the whole Hackintosh ability.

Wrong. Hackintosh was around long before Pystar. They shut down Pystar because they were selling hackintosh computers. I don't think they are going to go after the Hackintosh community, and even if they did, it would be extremely hard to shut it down. How would they go about doing that? There's no centralized site or company behind all of that.

It would be like trying to stop people from sneaking food into the movie theater. Sure, you could try to go after individuals doing it, but A) there's no single group that's doing it all that you could go after, and B) is it worth the effort of trying to stop the occasional person from doing that?

Correct. You can't stop it because you're buying a copy of vanilla Snow Leopard and running it on top a patched system. Kind of like a Virtual PC install, but native. Before, this was very sketchy - but thanks to the mighty stare decisis handed down by the courts on Jailbreaking and the DMCA... there's a good chance Apple is going to be able to do next to nothing to prevent this.

Heck, this is like letting only people with blue eyes into a club and non-blue-eyed people start wearing contacts. Nothing wrong with wearing contacts; it's not against the law. The most you can do is if you catch them.. kick them out of the club. You can't arrest or sue them.

[General Tso]

Anybody know if installing VMWare disables Softest?

And any links on Softest for OSX?

[03121202698008]

Yep, OSx86 on laptop hardware is really best for fun or experimentation at the moment. There are a number of desktop configurations that are known to be rock-solid, however. Hopefully these sorts of clues are permissible: google "kakewalk gigabyte minimal effort".

It's only a matter of time until Apple shuts them down though. They recently sued and shut down Pystar's Rebel EFI which started the whole Hackintosh ability.

Wrong. Hackintosh was around long before Pystar. They shut down Pystar because they were selling hackintosh computers. I don't think they are going to go after the Hackintosh community, and even if they did, it would be extremely hard to shut it down. How would they go about doing that? There's no centralized site or company behind all of that.

It would be like trying to stop people from sneaking food into the movie theater. Sure, you could try to go after individuals doing it, but A) there's no single group that's doing it all that you could go after, and B) is it worth the effort of trying to stop the occasional person from doing that?

Correct. You can't stop it because you're buying a copy of vanilla Snow Leopard and running it on top a patched system. Kind of like a Virtual PC install, but native. Before, this was very sketchy - but thanks to the mighty stare decisis handed down by the courts on Jailbreaking and the DMCA... there's a good chance Apple is going to be able to do next to nothing to prevent this.

Heck, this is like letting only people with blue eyes into a club and non-blue-eyed people start wearing contacts. Nothing wrong with wearing contacts; it's not against the law. The most you can do is if you catch them.. kick them out of the club. You can't arrest or sue them.

Wrong, OSX checks for Apple's specific EFI when it installs. Apple owns the copyright to this EFI and any software which emulates it must reproduce copyrighted code. This is currently done through the bootloader on Hackintoshs. In Nov, 2009 Apple won a summary judgment specifically stating that reproducing this EFI was not protected by the DMCA. Specifically that Psystar had facilitated software that "avoids, bypasses, removes, descrambles, decrypts, deactivates or impairs a technological protection measure without Apple's authority for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to Apple's copyrighted works."

Apple has enforced this to varying degrees throughout the years. For whatever reason, Apple tends to wait until a rather large set of violators exists. See Apple's recent lawsuit over companies making non-approved chargers even though they have been doing it for ~5 years.

[ResolutePear]

It's only a matter of time until Apple shuts them down though. They recently sued and shut down Pystar's Rebel EFI which started the whole Hackintosh ability.

Wrong. Hackintosh was around long before Pystar. They shut down Pystar because they were selling hackintosh computers. I don't think they are going to go after the Hackintosh community, and even if they did, it would be extremely hard to shut it down. How would they go about doing that? There's no centralized site or company behind all of that.

It would be like trying to stop people from sneaking food into the movie theater. Sure, you could try to go after individuals doing it, but A) there's no single group that's doing it all that you could go after, and B) is it worth the effort of trying to stop the occasional person from doing that?

Correct. You can't stop it because you're buying a copy of vanilla Snow Leopard and running it on top a patched system. Kind of like a Virtual PC install, but native. Before, this was very sketchy - but thanks to the mighty stare decisis handed down by the courts on Jailbreaking and the DMCA... there's a good chance Apple is going to be able to do next to nothing to prevent this.

Heck, this is like letting only people with blue eyes into a club and non-blue-eyed people start wearing contacts. Nothing wrong with wearing contacts; it's not against the law. The most you can do is if you catch them.. kick them out of the club. You can't arrest or sue them.

Wrong, OSX checks for Apple's specific EFI when it installs. Apple owns the copyright to this EFI and any software which emulates it must reproduce copyrighted code. In Nov, 2009 Apple won a summary judgment specifically stating that reproducing this EFI was not protected by the DMCA.

Apple has enforced this to varying degrees throughout the years. For whatever reason, Apple tends to wait until a rather large set of violators exists. See Apple's recent lawsuit over companies making non-approved chargers even though they have been doing it for ~5 years.

I think you've been grossly misinformed. That'd be like saying that SNES9x is illegal.
http://netkas.org/?page_id=21

[03121202698008]

I think you've been grossly misinformed. That'd be like saying that SNES9x is illegal.
http://netkas.org/?page_id=21

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... GP9u23XznQ

I think I'll take the District Court Judges' word over some un-named non-lawyer on a website dated 2007 before this ruling was handed down.

SNES9x allows you to play games you own the legal right to play. Apple's argument was that violating their terms of service (which allows only apple hardware) makes all derivative copies unauthorized (including copies held in RAM). Thus prohibited by the DMCA and copyright law. (The RAM argument was actually a first and held by the judge not to be protected under sec 117 of the copyright code.)

There is a difference between emulating an open hardware spec (which is what SNES9x does) and emulating copyright code to circumvent copyright protection. SNES9x is actually emulating the processor's instruction set which is made by texas instruments if I remember correctly, and is included in many other devices. This use is permitted by the processor manufacturer. SNES roms are not actually tied or encrypted to any specific hardware.

The judge also held that Psystar was guilty of contributory infringement. "One infringes contributorily by intentionally inducing or encouraging direct infringement.” See MGM Studios Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., 545 U.S. 913, 930 (2005)."



Right or wrong, if Apple wanted to shut any of these projects down they can and would. (Hell, they got a criminal search warrant against a journalist in the whole lost iPhone 4 debacle.)

In short, I think YOU'VE been grossly misinformed.

[rowlf]

Hey everyone, thank you for your responses. (I'm the OP.) I particularly appreciate the people who have talked from personal experience and given the reasons that motivated their choices. More of that would be very much appreciated.

I have a few additional questions and comments.

1. I am interested in doing some video editing. It's an extracurricular interest of mine, I'm no aspiring professional. But is there any software compatible with a Lenovo that can allow me to do that? Back in the day, I used to use Adobe Premier. Is that still a decent standard? I understand that Mac's Final Cut is pretty standard now, though. Is there any way to get Final Cut to work on a Lenovo?

2. To clarify, money is a factor for me. I've got an upper limit that I am not crossing. There's no way I'm paying for a 15-inch Mac, for example. Even if I loved the specs on it, it's just too much money. I'm interested in value for what I spend, quality, and real staying power. On that point, it seems that Mac offers less for the money than Lenovo. But the question is, would the differences make a difference for me?
---What is the difference between a Core 2 Duo and an i5? What drawbacks would I experience? What type of users would definitely want to go for a i5 if possible? I am a big multasker. I like to have lots of apps/windows open.
---The Thinkpad I'd get has a 6-cell battery. How does the battery life on a Mac compare to that?
---Thinkpad question: Is it worth it to get an Intel rather than a Thinkpad wireless card? They'll give you the Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 free and you can upgrade to better ones by adding up to $55.
---I hear the Mac has an "irritating glossy screen"? Comments on this from users? Is the X201 screen matte? I actually don't think it is, but is it as bad?
---how clutch is a CDROM? Mac has one, Thinkpad doesn't. I sometimes miss the CDROM on my netbook that lacks it.
---Any other contrasts I missed, with implications?

3. Is a MacBook Pro seriously that much better than a Macbook? Because perhaps a Macbook with a few key upgrades would end up being a better value? But I hear Macbooks are somehow less hardy.

4. The edge Mac supposedly has on "usability" is not a factor for me. Usability is subjective, so these kind of comments foster conflict. I'd appreciate it if people steered clear of them, but obviously do whatever. A lot of times the arguments have a lot of real useful info in them(see the above ). I'm indifferent between the two operating systems. I imagine that "usability" (whatever that means) is not a factor for most people who are legitimately unsure whether to go Mac or PC; if you had a strong usability preference, you'd just go with the system you preferred.

5. Purchasing AppleCare for three years does include accident insurance, right?

Hey, thanks a lot for all you've said and will say!

[03121202698008]

You cannot match the relative performance of a MBP no matter how you configure a MB. As long as you get an aluminum MB, there is no difference in the "hardiness". AppleCare just extends the warranty. It is not insurance and can be purchased until the day the original warranty runs out.

[ResolutePear]

I think you've been grossly misinformed. That'd be like saying that SNES9x is illegal.
http://netkas.org/?page_id=21

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... GP9u23XznQ

I think I'll take the District Court Judges' word over some un-named non-lawyer on a website dated 2007 before this ruling was handed down.

SNES9x allows you to play games you own the legal right to play. Apple's argument was that violating their terms of service (which allows only apple hardware) makes all derivative copies unauthorized (including copies held in RAM). Thus prohibited by the DMCA and copyright law. (The RAM argument was actually a first and held by the judge not to be protected under sec 117 of the copyright code.)

There is a difference between emulating an open hardware spec (which is what SNES9x does) and emulating copyright code to circumvent copyright protection. SNES9x is actually emulating the processor's instruction set which is made by texas instruments if I remember correctly, and is included in many other devices. This use is permitted by the processor manufacturer. SNES roms are not actually tied or encrypted to any specific hardware.

The judge also held that Psystar was guilty of contributory infringement. "One infringes contributorily by intentionally inducing or encouraging direct infringement.” See MGM Studios Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., 545 U.S. 913, 930 (2005)."



Right or wrong, if Apple wanted to shut any of these projects down they can and would. (Hell, they got a criminal search warrant against a journalist in the whole lost iPhone 4 debacle.)

In short, I think YOU'VE been grossly misinformed.

Thanks for the link I've been meaning to read on this BLANKET DECISION ON EVERYBODY Psystar.

And you'd be correct in saying that I've been grossly misinformed if Psystar's method was the only method. You're trying to match the decisions from a half-baked company which couldn't compile a good defense to the entire Hackintosh community.

There's PC-EFI, Boot 123, etc. which require no modification to the OS; hence it runs "vanilla".

Try again.

[ResolutePear]

Hey everyone, thank you for your responses. (I'm the OP.) I particularly appreciate the people who have talked from personal experience and given the reasons that motivated their choices. More of that would be very much appreciated.

I have a few additional questions and comments.

1. I am interested in doing some video editing. It's an extracurricular interest of mine, I'm no aspiring professional. But is there any software compatible with a Lenovo that can allow me to do that? Back in the day, I used to use Adobe Premier. Is that still a decent standard? I understand that Mac's Final Cut is pretty standard now, though. Is there any way to get Final Cut to work on a Lenovo?

2. To clarify, money is a factor for me. I've got an upper limit that I am not crossing. There's no way I'm paying for a 15-inch Mac, for example. Even if I loved the specs on it, it's just too much money. I'm interested in value for what I spend, quality, and real staying power. On that point, it seems that Mac offers less for the money than Lenovo. But the question is, would the differences make a difference for me?
---What is the difference between a Core 2 Duo and an i5? What drawbacks would I experience? What type of users would definitely want to go for a i5 if possible? I am a big multasker. I like to have lots of apps/windows open.
---The Thinkpad I'd get has a 6-cell battery. How does the battery life on a Mac compare to that?
---Thinkpad question: Is it worth it to get an Intel rather than a Thinkpad wireless card? They'll give you the Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 free and you can upgrade to better ones by adding up to $55.
---I hear the Mac has an "irritating glossy screen"? Comments on this from users? Is the X201 screen matte? I actually don't think it is, but is it as bad?
---how clutch is a CDROM? Mac has one, Thinkpad doesn't. I sometimes miss the CDROM on my netbook that lacks it.
---Any other contrasts I missed, with implications?



3. Is a MacBook Pro seriously that much better than a Macbook? Because perhaps a Macbook with a few key upgrades would end up being a better value? But I hear Macbooks are somehow less hardy.

4. The edge Mac supposedly has on "usability" is not a factor for me. Usability is subjective, so these kind of comments foster conflict. I'd appreciate it if people steered clear of them, but obviously do whatever. A lot of times the arguments have a lot of real useful info in them(see the above ). I'm indifferent between the two operating systems. I imagine that "usability" (whatever that means) is not a factor for most people who are legitimately unsure whether to go Mac or PC; if you had a strong usability preference, you'd just go with the system you preferred.

5. Purchasing AppleCare for three years does include accident insurance, right?

Hey, thanks a lot for all you've said and will say!

For the most part, memory plays a bigger factor on how many windows/apps you can have open vs the CPU speed.

It depends on models as far as battery life goes.. but like spec'd systems will yield about the same battery life.

I'd just get the free card; but each to their own that that.

I think both manufacturers have a matte screen option.

Unless you're looking at the X-series I believe theres CDRoms on thinkpads.

Do you live within 75 miles of an Apple Store? If not, I heard of hassles with apple warranty. Minor, at any rate.

MBP vs MB.. just use one at the store to the max for like 15 mins each and see which one you can live with more.

[shutterbug]

mac no question

[Chupavida]

.

[rowlf]

You're right Resolute, I've been looking at X201s, which don't have CDROMs. (I like light computerss.) I said Thinkpad by mistake because I was thinking so much about the model I was considering! However, don't count the X-series out in this department--- X301s do have CDROMs.

AppleCare just extends the warranty. It is not insurance and can be purchased until the day the original warranty runs out.

So basically if I were to drop my mac or spill something on it, causing it to break, it wouldn't be covered, no matter what? I've actually never done anything like that before, but I've always bought accident insurance when available because I fear that companies are likely to find ways to refuse to fix the product. Basically, they're eager to blame hardware malfunctioning on you. How is AppleCare, from those who have used it?

Chupavida, I liked your Asus shoutout, I've got a Asus netbook. And who's using a Blackberry? I've got a Palm Pre, which is the very, very best smartphone out there, IMHO. Email-writing functionality to rival Blackberry, with the user-friendliness and attractiveness to rival iPhone, and a level of ease in multitasking that eats droid's lunch. WebOS just owns. The only problem is, I guess, that no one uses it. I don't care as long as they still support and update it, which they do beautifully.

[Chupavida]

.

[beach_terror]

Most things they can fix locally (which beats mailing it to wherever Dell does their exorcisms),

+1 hahahaha, solid.