NYU Class of 2014 Forum

[Lisi]

Re: Corporate Slave.
My thoughts here are based on what I know from my friends who are currently working in Big Law (and their friends at their firms). I'll give you one example, because it's easier to just go into depth about one, in my mind, rather telling case. I reconnected a little while ago with an ex-bf (I broke up with him when he stated HLS about 8 years ago) who is now working for a big law firm. He loves designer suits, money, etc., but he says he is absolutely miserable at his firm and that everyone else he knows there is too. Ultimately, since he's in corporate law, he works the same hours as those on the business side of the equation, but he finds the work a LOT more boring, and his pay check doesn't come close to what those guys are getting. He's depressed about the fact that he often sees partners who at the last minute have to back out of family vacations and the like. As in, even when you get to the partner level, you still have no life - and no control. He'd like to take a job outside of NY (like back in Vancouver, where he spent his early childhood), but he now fully admits that he has golden handcuffs securely in place: the Vancouver job doesn't pay the same kind of NYC Big Law salary that would allow him to both continue to buy the things he likes and pay off his debts. He says most of his HLS buddies are no longer in law - many have gone into business, taken a big cut to go in-house, or gone to work for a consulting company like BCG. He looks back fondly on his days as a clerk (even though he was doing this in the rather un-happening state of Ohio). The worst part is that the interesting, intellectual, and ambitious guy that I used to know has become an empty jaded stereotype (which, btw, he reluctantly but fully admits). This is just one story. Needless to say, I am not interested in having this life!!!!

Re: Academia.
I did my PhD and had an offer at a small liberal arts college. I freaked out that I didn't want to spend my life as mainly a teacher, which is more or less what my field has become even after your work your way up to bigger institutions. I also am not particularly happy with the state of the field right now. In my opinion, the quality of scholarship has gone VERY far down from what it used to be. This became increasingly clear as I did my research for my dissertation and noticed when and who was writing the really insightful stuff. Also, it became clear the more I got to know profs and students in other departments, where the quality of scholarship just seemed higher (i.e. smarter people working in those fields, the assessment criteria was clearer and more objective, there wasn't an anti-elitist backlash like in my field - which, by the way, I never really understood since I always considered academia to be pretty much the definition of elitist!). Anyway, I loved doing research and taking classes, but I wasn't a huge fan of teaching. And I knew I would go absolutely crazy teaching the same thing over and over again for the rest of my life. I didn't even like having to teach a class in grad school more than once. I think some like to 'do' and others like to 'teach' (yeah, I'm simplifying a lot, I know). But some of my peers poured their hearts and souls into teaching in grad school and still haven't gotten around to finishing their dissertations. I finished on time, and couldn't bring myself to do more than the merely 'adequate' when it came to preparing classes - especially ones that I had already taught. Different strokes, I guess. Anyway, I'll miss the research component, so I'm really hoping law school is intellectually enriching! Hope all of you make it that way too!!

[thecilent]

When you say corporate slave - what kind of daily work is that exactly? This is meant as a serious question. When they tell you you'll need to work 70-80 hours a week, with no days off for months at a time - what kind of work are you doing? Is it challenging and interesting? Or is it just tedious and repetitive paper-pushing that any office-drone with a law degree could do? If I had to do a boring job for 70 hours a week, I'd kill myself. But 70 hours of non-stop awesomeness . . . is a different story.

No one is working 70-80 hours a week with no days off months at a time. That is def hyperbole. But yeah it prob depends on the firm and practice, but I would imagine much of the first few years are not that exciting.. prob not that interesting.

I think it really depends on the firm, whether you're doing litigation or transactional work, how good you are (or how the partners view you more specifically), etc. That's why it's important to do your homework before EIW.

I'm probably going to do corporate. It almost feels like I know too much accounting at this point not to.

From what I hear you do not even really need to know any accounting or finance to do the work.

[thecilent]

Re: Corporate Slave.
My thoughts here are based on what I know from my friends who are currently working in Big Law (and their friends at their firms). I'll give you one example, because it's easier to just go into depth about one, in my mind, rather telling case. I reconnected a little while ago with an ex-bf (I broke up with him when he stated HLS about 8 years ago) who is now working for a big law firm. He loves designer suits, money, etc., but he says he is absolutely miserable at his firm and that everyone else he knows there is too. Ultimately, since he's in corporate law, he works the same hours as those on the business side of the equation, but he finds the work a LOT more boring, and his pay check doesn't come close to what those guys are getting. He's depressed about the fact that he often sees partners who at the last minute have to back out of family vacations and the like. As in, even when you get to the partner level, you still have no life - and no control. He'd like to take a job outside of NY (like back in Vancouver, where he spent his early childhood), but he now fully admits that he has golden handcuffs securely in place: the Vancouver job doesn't pay the same kind of NYC Big Law salary that would allow him to both continue to buy the things he likes and pay off his debts. He says most of his HLS buddies are no longer in law - many have gone into business, taken a big cut to go in-house, or gone to work for a consulting company like BCG. He looks back fondly on his days as a clerk (even though he was doing this in the rather un-happening state of Ohio). The worst part is that the interesting, intellectual, and ambitious guy that I used to know has become an empty jaded stereotype (which, btw, he reluctantly but fully admits). This is just one story. Needless to say, I am not interested in having this life!!!!

tyft -_-

[somewhere]

No one is working 70-80 hours a week with no days off months at a time. That is def hyperbole.

I don't know, but one alum who works in Big Law and who was on one of the career panels during at least one admitted students day said that he worked seven days a week without a single day off for the first six months on the job. I don't recall that he gave a number of hours per day or week, but the insinuation was definitely that he worked constantly and hardly did anything else.

I don't know exactly how typical that is, and he said it varies according to what department you're in and how the work is in that field at the time, but I don't get the sense that this is especially unusual as a new associate.

Edit: everybody should definitely read this: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

[ahduth]

Re: Corporate Slave.
My thoughts here are based on what I know from my friends who are currently working in Big Law (and their friends at their firms). I'll give you one example, because it's easier to just go into depth about one, in my mind, rather telling case. I reconnected a little while ago with an ex-bf (I broke up with him when he stated HLS about 8 years ago) who is now working for a big law firm. He loves designer suits, money, etc., but he says he is absolutely miserable at his firm and that everyone else he knows there is too. Ultimately, since he's in corporate law, he works the same hours as those on the business side of the equation, but he finds the work a LOT more boring, and his pay check doesn't come close to what those guys are getting. He's depressed about the fact that he often sees partners who at the last minute have to back out of family vacations and the like. As in, even when you get to the partner level, you still have no life - and no control. He'd like to take a job outside of NY (like back in Vancouver, where he spent his early childhood), but he now fully admits that he has golden handcuffs securely in place: the Vancouver job doesn't pay the same kind of NYC Big Law salary that would allow him to both continue to buy the things he likes and pay off his debts. He says most of his HLS buddies are no longer in law - many have gone into business, taken a big cut to go in-house, or gone to work for a consulting company like BCG. He looks back fondly on his days as a clerk (even though he was doing this in the rather un-happening state of Ohio). The worst part is that the interesting, intellectual, and ambitious guy that I used to know has become an empty jaded stereotype (which, btw, he reluctantly but fully admits). This is just one story. Needless to say, I am not interested in having this life!!!!

tyft -_-

He went into law expecting to get rich? Good luck with that.

[Lisi]

tyft -_-

I'm sorry, but what does tyft mean?

[thecilent]

Yeah I've seen that Yale thing around. I saw a lot of associates saying they bill closer to 85-90% rather than the 70-75% that they suggest there

[thecilent]

tyft -_-

I'm sorry, but what does tyft mean?

Thank you for this

[spacepenguin]

Lisi: Very insightful stuff. I'm glad you shared.

In regards to academia, much like the law school, the amount of PhDs being given has grown exponentially and I would assume that scholarship would naturally decrease as an effect of an over saturated market. Your experience pretty much confirms the various anecdotes I heard from various economic graduate students who--while brilliant--seemed confined to teaching and given very little access to prominent research in the field.

As for being a corporate slave; I've heard the good and the bad side of the industry. I really don't mind putting in the billable hours as long as the work is engaging (in fact, I prefer more hours to less) and that's largely dependent on the firm. Next to HLS, CCN seems to give the most opportunity to having a 'choice' between firms and I'll be hoping that I'm the exception rather than the rule in terms of being an "empty jaded stereotype."

[incompetentia]

I plan to go into PI. I didn't leave academia to be a corporate slave! I'm not completely sure what kind of PI -- I'm going to let my experiences at NYU guide me when it comes to specific opportunities or ideas.

This is also me, although at a different point in the progression. (Was in a PhD program in music composition...about the most irrelevant graduate degree in existence. Yes, more than philosophy or anything like that. Trust me.)

WE WILL SAVE THE WORLD TOGETHER? (and doggies)

[bdubs]

Ultimately, since he's in corporate law, he works the same hours as those on the business side of the equation, but he finds the work a LOT more boring, and his pay check doesn't come close to what those guys are getting.

The grass is always greener... I wouldn't put too much stock into this. Those "business" people are probably also giving up vacations and doing tedious things.

The people who actually like being a lawyer, banker, or consultant are the type that embrace being a what most would consider a "corporate slave"

[spacepenguin]

Yeah I've seen that Yale thing around. I saw a lot of associates saying they bill closer to 85-90% rather than the 70-75% that they suggest there

3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks holiday seems a bit much. Or maybe my parents just don't believe in time off.

[ahduth]

I'd be curious to know what vacation carryover policies are like at these firms.

[law_monkey]

I plan to go into PI. I didn't leave academia to be a corporate slave! I'm not completely sure what kind of PI -- I'm going to let my experiences at NYU guide me when it comes to specific opportunities or ideas.

This is also me, although at a different point in the progression. (Was in a PhD program in music composition...about the most irrelevant graduate degree in existence. Yes, more than philosophy or anything like that. Trust me.)

WE WILL SAVE THE WORLD TOGETHER? (and doggies)

I'm a PI girl too!!! I want to work in civil rights/liberties (and yes I'm aware that I'm probably not just going to waltz into a glamorous job at the ACLU right after graduation), and after I have some experience I hope to end up in death penalty appeals litigation.

[thecilent]

Yeah I've seen that Yale thing around. I saw a lot of associates saying they bill closer to 85-90% rather than the 70-75% that they suggest there

3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks holiday seems a bit much. Or maybe my parents just don't believe in time off.

Yeah that's way too much esp starting out

[sgtgrumbles]

When will we find out what section we're placed in? Does that only happen around orientation time?

Edit: By the way, I should probably introduce myself in this thread. I deposited at NYU recently and will almost certainly be there in the fall. I was deeply impressed by the ASW I attended, which confirmed my belief that NYU was the school for me. I'm looking forward to meeting you all in the fall.

[incompetentia]

When will we find out what section we're placed in? Does that only happen around orientation time?

Grumbles!!



(And yes, as far as I can tell, we get our section assignments in August.)

[ahduth]

I dunno, I'm curious to know who my profs will be.

This whole TLS crowd is sketchy, there's a facebook page too.

[mcweanis]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

[incompetentia]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

I KNEW IT WAS YOU FREDO

YOU BROKE MY HEART

[Ratchet Jackson]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

You'd really leave this party for that TTT? Pssh.

[law_monkey]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

Congrats and have fun!

[Non-Chalant1]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

I go back to what I said when people talked about riding the waitlist at Harvard about all the "I'm no prestige whore" people having a change of heart suddenly. J/K


But seriously congrats...you're probably golden...but I must warn you that New England doesn't take as kindly to rodents as NYC.

P.S. I know no one that is working 70 hours a week at a firm. But if that is the case...why do law students always assume that they'll work less hours in other jobs? The AUSAs I've come across work ridicolous hours as well. You enter this profession you're working a bunch of hours.

Working a bunch of hours and making 6 figures>>>> 9 to 5 as a Bank Clerk

Mind you I hope to work for the DOJ some day...I'm just saying.

[law_monkey]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

I go back to what I said when people talked about riding the waitlist at Harvard about all the "I'm no prestige whore" people having a change of heart suddenly. J/K


But seriously congrats...you're probably golden...but I must warn you that New England doesn't take as kindly to rodents as NYC.

P.S. I know no one that is working 70 hours a week at a firm. But if that is the case...why do law students always assume that they'll work less hours in other jobs? The AUSAs I've come across work ridicolous hours as well. You enter this profession you're working a bunch of hours.

Working a bunch of hours and making 6 figures>>>> 9 to 5 as a Bank Clerk

Mind you I hope to work for the DOJ some day...I'm just saying.

I think I just made up my mind to withdraw! Not that I think I have a chance anyway, but I have come to realize that Harvard just isn't for me. Obviously it's a great school, but I'm in love with the PI-ness that is NYU!

[Ratchet Jackson]

i just got a JR1!!

i love you all, but if i get in to harvard, i'm going to harvard..

I go back to what I said when people talked about riding the waitlist at Harvard about all the "I'm no prestige whore" people having a change of heart suddenly. J/K


But seriously congrats...you're probably golden...but I must warn you that New England doesn't take as kindly to rodents as NYC.

P.S. I know no one that is working 70 hours a week at a firm. But if that is the case...why do law students always assume that they'll work less hours in other jobs? The AUSAs I've come across work ridicolous hours as well. You enter this profession you're working a bunch of hours.

Working a bunch of hours and making 6 figures>>>> 9 to 5 as a Bank Clerk

Mind you I hope to work for the DOJ some day...I'm just saying.

This is real talk.