Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14? Forum

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staygoldenponyboy

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Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by staygoldenponyboy » Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:26 am

Hello, Happy Holidays.

Got a 4.25 GPA first semester. Haven't gotten back my class rank yet, but if I am not #1 overall, I am in the top 1-2% most likely, at very worse top 5%.
I am currently at a T-30. Based on those different parameters (#1, 1-2%, 5%), what do my chances look like applying to the top schools out there?

This is kinda new for me, I had a low undergraduate GPA (3.2) and didn't do great on LSAT (167), so this is foreign territory for me.

Bests.

Lawman1865

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by Lawman1865 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:02 pm

Hope the new year is going well.

Obviously that's a great result and congratulations for such a fantastic semester. You can look at the 509 report for those schools and it should show you where they accepted transfers from to get an idea of where your school sits, but top 1-2% at a T-30 would put you in a solid position to transfer. Top 5% still could get you there I would think, but I haven't looked at their recent transfer trends. Harvard accepted about 35-40 transfers on average when I was in law school and it looks like they're going up to 70+ so better odds I suppose. Yale, as expected, will be much tougher, and only accept a handful of students for transferring generally. In any case, if you are interested in transferring (you should evaluate your reasons for doing so and whether it's for personal reasons, professional, prestige, etc, and then decide if it really makes sense for you) you should still apply broadly to other T-14s that you are interested in.

Also as an aside, a 167 LSAT is the 94th percentile of all LSAT takers and a very respectable score. Just throwing that out there.

LBJ's Hair

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by LBJ's Hair » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:11 pm

need spring grades (hugely determinative, obviously)

you probably have no shot at YLS even as the #1 given your school (check 509 reports, it's a tiny transfer class that's predominantly the few students at T14s)

would also keep in mind that law schools heavily over-enrolled your year, so transfer season will likely be very tough

Goldie

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by Goldie » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:08 pm

I ended my 1L year at a ~T30 ranked #1 with a 4.0 GPA. Got into Harvard but not into Yale. Also got into a couple of the other T14 schools I applied to, but got rejected from one.

For what it's worth, I had a 166 LSAT and graduated right around the top 10% at HLS, so don't assume that doing well after a transfer is impossible.

staygoldenponyboy

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by staygoldenponyboy » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:03 am

Goldie wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:08 pm
I ended my 1L year at a ~T30 ranked #1 with a 4.0 GPA. Got into Harvard but not into Yale. Also got into a couple of the other T14 schools I applied to, but got rejected from one.

For what it's worth, I had a 166 LSAT and graduated right around the top 10% at HLS, so don't assume that doing well after a transfer is impossible.
Appreciate the response. I am #1 after one semester.
Did you apply to SLS?
Do you mind sharing your "why transfer" kinda bit you used for your personal statements?
Do you feel that you are stigmatized at all for job/clerk prospects, as a transfer (compare to a 3 year HLS student?)

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staygoldenponyboy

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by staygoldenponyboy » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:06 am

LBJ's Hair wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:11 pm
need spring grades (hugely determinative, obviously)

you probably have no shot at YLS even as the #1 given your school (check 509 reports, it's a tiny transfer class that's predominantly the few students at T14s)

would also keep in mind that law schools heavily over-enrolled your year, so transfer season will likely be very tough
Thanks for response. I am #1 after the first semester. I am confident that I can pull it off again, but I understand you never really know until it is all said and done.
If you were me, do you think that it will be so competitive that I should just attempt the UChi ED option, and give up HYS if I got it? I would 95% transfer to the a T-6 if I got, would (obvi? idk) take HYS over CCN, if I had the opportunity.

staygoldenponyboy

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by staygoldenponyboy » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:09 am

Lawman1865 wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:02 pm
Hope the new year is going well.

Obviously that's a great result and congratulations for such a fantastic semester. You can look at the 509 report for those schools and it should show you where they accepted transfers from to get an idea of where your school sits, but top 1-2% at a T-30 would put you in a solid position to transfer. Top 5% still could get you there I would think, but I haven't looked at their recent transfer trends. Harvard accepted about 35-40 transfers on average when I was in law school and it looks like they're going up to 70+ so better odds I suppose. Yale, as expected, will be much tougher, and only accept a handful of students for transferring generally. In any case, if you are interested in transferring (you should evaluate your reasons for doing so and whether it's for personal reasons, professional, prestige, etc, and then decide if it really makes sense for you) you should still apply broadly to other T-14s that you are interested in.

Also as an aside, a 167 LSAT is the 94th percentile of all LSAT takers and a very respectable score. Just throwing that out there.
Appericate the response. And thank you for saying that about LSAT, I didn't mean any disrespect, I just meant when combined with my uGPA, I had no real shot at t-14.

Do you have any idea how much of a stigma being a transfer student would be? Would my school be treated with an asterisk for clerkship opportunities for say? Or academia down the line?

Goldie

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by Goldie » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:34 pm

staygoldenponyboy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:03 am
Goldie wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:08 pm
I ended my 1L year at a ~T30 ranked #1 with a 4.0 GPA. Got into Harvard but not into Yale. Also got into a couple of the other T14 schools I applied to, but got rejected from one.

For what it's worth, I had a 166 LSAT and graduated right around the top 10% at HLS, so don't assume that doing well after a transfer is impossible.
Appreciate the response. I am #1 after one semester.
Did you apply to SLS?
Do you mind sharing your "why transfer" kinda bit you used for your personal statements?
Do you feel that you are stigmatized at all for job/clerk prospects, as a transfer (compare to a 3 year HLS student?)
Sort of. Some documentation from my 1L school evidently never arrived at Stanford and they denied my application as incomplete.

My "why transfer" was pretty honest--I didn't realize how important school rankings were in the legal field when I first applied to law school, and so had assumed that being at the top school in my state would be good enough. While there, I learned there were some (although probably not too many) jobs I wouldn't qualify for, based solely on where I went to school. Transferring was a way for me to try to make sure that doors wouldn't be artificially closed.

I found the OCI and clerkship process to be tougher than it likely would have been if I had been a "homegrown" HLS student, but I summered at a V20 in DC, clerked twice, and am now at a V10 in DC. Some of the jobs I've had likely would not have happened for me if I had not transferred, while others might have.

Overall no regrets on transferring, but I did find the decision difficult at the time. You're in a great spot and likely won't go wrong either way.

Lawman1865

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Re: Is HYS on the Table? Look solid for other T14?

Post by Lawman1865 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:16 pm

staygoldenponyboy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:09 am
Lawman1865 wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:02 pm
Hope the new year is going well.

Obviously that's a great result and congratulations for such a fantastic semester. You can look at the 509 report for those schools and it should show you where they accepted transfers from to get an idea of where your school sits, but top 1-2% at a T-30 would put you in a solid position to transfer. Top 5% still could get you there I would think, but I haven't looked at their recent transfer trends. Harvard accepted about 35-40 transfers on average when I was in law school and it looks like they're going up to 70+ so better odds I suppose. Yale, as expected, will be much tougher, and only accept a handful of students for transferring generally. In any case, if you are interested in transferring (you should evaluate your reasons for doing so and whether it's for personal reasons, professional, prestige, etc, and then decide if it really makes sense for you) you should still apply broadly to other T-14s that you are interested in.

Also as an aside, a 167 LSAT is the 94th percentile of all LSAT takers and a very respectable score. Just throwing that out there.
Appericate the response. And thank you for saying that about LSAT, I didn't mean any disrespect, I just meant when combined with my uGPA, I had no real shot at t-14.

Do you have any idea how much of a stigma being a transfer student would be? Would my school be treated with an asterisk for clerkship opportunities for say? Or academia down the line?

No worries!

I transferred and, although people may feel differently based on their experience, I felt that there was some initial stigma from certain firms during summer interviews, although there were plenty of people who didn't seem to care. I think transferring is common enough now that I think any stigma in a corporate biglaw context is likely minimal.

That being said, I can't really speak to clerkships or academia down the line since I didn't go down either of those paths. Considering the prestige factors of some of those professions, I guess it's possible that you run into somebody who doesn't love the transfer concept. Ultimately though I know lots of people who transfer to the top schools in order to open up the possibility for clerkships, so I'm inclined to think that it would only help in that regard.

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