TTTT looking for advice Forum

[billxcarter]

Ok guys this is my first post but I've been seeing so much good information I figured I'd give it a shot. I attend an HBCU law school and am fairly sure that I want to transfer. Not because the school is an HBCU but because I am not hopeful about my employment prospects post grad.
I am an AA male in the top 10% or my class. Were on a C/C- curve so I have a 3.3 gpa. 162 LSAT (if that matters)
I would like to work on the East Coast, Texas or MAYBE California.
Im receiving no money at my current school, however I am paying in state tuition, but I'd be willing to take on additional debt if it made sense.
What if any schools do you guys think I can get into, that will give me my best shot to get into a large corporate firm if i do well after transferring?

[cavalier1138]

What if any schools do you guys think I can get into, that will give me my best shot to get into a large corporate firm if i do well after transferring?

I can't speak to how being AA will impact your job search, but diversity does play a role in biglaw hiring.

That said, the above is largely going to impacted by whether you transfer to a school that pushes its OCI to a spring 2021 date and allows transfer students to participate. The vast majority of biglaw hiring happens during OCI, which would usually be this summer, so your performance after transferring usually wouldn't have any impact. But this year, COVID-19 has thrown things off, and it's possible your Fall 2021 semester (if it's graded) will impact your chances at OCI, which will only matter if you're allowed to participate in the first place. So there are a ton of variables that will impact whether you can even get in the room to compete for a biglaw job this hiring cycle, no matter where you are.

In short, you shouldn't count on being able to transfer anywhere that gives you a realistic shot of getting into biglaw. There are probably other benefits to transferring (TTTT schools are going to be absolutely decimated when hiring slows), but I would not count on biglaw in your situation.

[objctnyrhnr]

Probably only worth transferring if you can crack the t-20 plus (meaning the us news and world report t20 plus maybe bc, Bu, Fordham, Gw). In a normal year, I’d say I am confident you’ll get a medium to significant boost with big firm hiring due to your URM status, so you have more flexibility as far as class rank is concerned.

But it’s not a normal year, so even with delayed oci, Big firm hiring might not be as robust as it has been.

You’ll also want to start applying to firms way before OCI to the extent you can, and there is a lot of good info on this site about how to do this (honestly it’s usually just target emails). Along these lines, it might benefit you to have as many indicators of your UrM status in your ap package/resume as you can without expressly saying it in a cover email.

This all being said, even at a low-level school, top 10% with urm status could give you an okay shot at biglaw if you apply widely and early...particularly with your geographic flexibility (though this again assumes somewhat normal times). For this reason, if you had told me that you have a big scholly there, I would have said to consider staying put. Of course the in-state is a consideration, but I still think it’s worth your time to apply to transfer.

One last point is, even in spite of your geographic flexibility, try to go to a top school in the region you want to work in. Maybe you have like 3 potential target areas you’d most prefer (call it TX, SoCal, boston for the sake of the explanation). In this scenario, you’d want to make sure to blanket UCLA/USC, BC/BU, and UT. Note that most schools will have decent placement ability into nyc, particularly non-Cali schools.

Finally just to re-emphasize: with your goals, this is probably not a worthwhile move if you can’t crack Gw/bc/Fordham. And even if you can, I would still think long and hard before attending any of those schools at full price ITE.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope that scattered opinion info was helpful as you start to think through this.

[crazywafflez]

I think unless you are able to crack the T20 it is not worth it to transfer- unless it is to a state school where you'll be able to get instate tuition on the third year. I can see why BC/BU/Fordham/Emory/GW/WashU/USC (This one may be better than the others though) could be good moves- I'm just worried about the expenses. Although, you have no scholarship at your current school so perhaps it is worth it anyways? Either way, apply to a bunch, and even if you don't go use those acceptances as leverage to get more money from your current school.
Personally, I'd look at UT and UCLA, based on your geographic preferences, and then blanket the T14. I think you'd have a real shot at Georgetown and possibly Cornell.
Again, that said, I think as a URM and placing in the top 10% of your class, you are in good shape to pick up some kind of biglaw work. If you are at Howard (and idk if you are), they actually place more in biglaw than expected for their rank.
This is kind of random- but if you are cool with the mid-atlantic region I'd look into W&M. They place alright throughout the east coast and you can get instate there your third year. Granted, a lot of the grads stay in VA though so you'd have to be open to the possibility. I'd also consider UNC and UGA if you are considering parts of the Southeast as the east coast.
Best of luck.

[decimalsanddollars]

Both posters above are generally right. Your odds of transferring to a school that would make biglaw attainable through OCI/straight out of law school are not great. Within the T14, I'd apply to Georgetown at least.

I would add, though, that because you're not leaving scholarship behind, it would probably make sense to transfer to a school outside the top 20 if the improved employment outcomes justify the cost difference. It would make sense, for example, to transfer from Texas Southern to University of Houston (let alone UT) or from FAMU to UF/FSU (still in-state, much better outcomes). Ditto NC Central => UNC; Southern U => LSU; etc. Note that under this approach, your new school, at least except for UT, will be a regional school with weak placement outside the school's immediate region (i.e., the state you're in now). If you want to go biglaw on the East Coast, you kinda need to go T14 (to place in any city) or at least Fordham/BU/BC/GW (only for the city each of those schools are in).

[cavalier1138]

Again, that said, I think as a URM and placing in the top 10% of your class, you are in good shape to pick up some kind of biglaw work. If you are at Howard (and idk if you are), they actually place more in biglaw than expected for their rank.

Do you think that's true outside of Howard, though? Based on OP's description of their school as "TTTT" and having in-state tuition rates, I think it's more likely along the lines of Texas Southern, which effectively places no graduates in biglaw.

[crazywafflez]

Cav, I think you are right. If it is Texas Southern chances are way more limited to get into biglaw.
Additionally, I'm not sure if going from Southern to LSU is always the right move. Outside of NOLA, I think a median student at LSU trumps the Southern students but that top distinction becomes fuzzier (maybe it is a wash?). I'll defer to others on if going from Texas Southern to U of Houston is a good move, I'm genuinely not sure.
At that end of the spectrum it might be worth it- but I'd never suggest for a student at LSU in the top 10% to xfer to Tulane if LA is their goal, or a UTk student at a similar place to move to Vandy if TN is their goal (If NY is, then by all means, transfer).
This is a hard decision. I'd at least send the applications and just see what happens. Worst case scenario, you stay put and get no scholarship offers- best case you're negotiating for a scholarship or going to Georgetown.

[QContinuum]

I think Louisiana's a uniquely insular market due to its civil law system. I wouldn't recommend transferring to a Louisiana law school unless OP specifically wants to work in Louisiana.

I think U of H is, reputationally, sufficiently above Southern that I'd recommend transferring there regardless.

[billxcarter]

Thanks folks, I actually read each of these responses and they were actually very helpful. I plan to apply to the larger state schools here in my state. I will be completing my Georgetown application and sending it today as well as GW, UCLA and Fordham. Ill keep this post updated for anyone who may be in a similar boat as myself and wants to see how it panned out for me.