Could really use some TLS Wisdom! (updated) Forum

[Anonymous User]

-Top 10% at a non-CA T1 school. No word on law review yet.
-COA at graduation at current school = $75k. COA at transfer schools will range from $110-$150k (all including interest - financed through savings/loans).
-Very strong CA ties (born/raised/undergrad/spouse/etc).
-Want SoCal BigLaw (LA/OC/SD) - preferably tax or general corporate - open to litigation/Big4 as alternatives.
-Spouse nor I want to be outside of CA post-grad.

ETA:
-Schools Admitted/Considering: UCLA, Chicago.
-Schools Pending: Columbia, NYU, Stanford, Harvard (although not sure if H is really pending anymore based on its thread).
-Schools Dinged: Berkeley.
-Schools Withdrew: USC, Penn, Michigan, NU, Georgetown

Is Chicago the obvious choice here over UCLA given my goals?
Would Columbia or NYU be a better option or am I splitting hairs at this point?
Please help! TLS is great, I really appreciate all responses!

[jbagelboy]

Congrats on these options!

To clarify, your current 2L and 3L COA will be $75k, and it is being increased to $110-150k? In that case, I think transferring is certainly the right call. More to the point, with this price differential, it would be a serious mistake to transfer to UCLA or USC over Penn (or CCN, if they become available). When people are debating a full ride at UCLA versus sticker at T14s and want to work in CA, I'll tell them to go to UCLA (obviously). But if you are stuck paying full price regardless, the choice is easy. From both the short term perspective of OCI and firm recruiting and your long term career, you have a lot of gain from attending one of the national schools.

For California firms, Columbia and Chicago give you the best chance, barring acceptance to Harvard or Stanford (which would be your best options given equal price). After that, Penn and NYU. After that, Northwestern or Michigan.

Best of luck.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your response. Yes, my COA is as you described it. Do you think Penn's lower CA placement is mostly due to self-selection?

Also, for anyone who has voted UCLA/USC, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[estefanchanning]

Why isn't Berkeley an option?

[Anonymous User]

Schools Dinged: Berkeley

I wish it were. Sorry I know it's a long post.

[UCLAHopeful16]

Is there any info on whether people at NU, Mich, or Penn automatically get SoCal BigLaw if they want it?

In some circles in California, you might be even better off going to UCLA/USC than Northwestern or Michigan. This is just my own opinion, but I'd say UCLA/USC > NU in California. Michigan is a great school but not that much better, if at all, than UCLA/USC if you want to work in southern California. I'd rank your options as follows:

H/S > CCN > Penn > UCLA/USC = Mich = NU

I think it'd be a no-brainer to go to H/S or CCN over UCLA/USC, but it's not as clear whether Penn, Michigan, or NU would be better for what you want. I'd knock NU out of the running and think carefully about whether Michigan is worth it.

Honestly, you're not going to go wrong whatever you decide. This is a good problem to have.

[Sprout]

Is there any info on whether people at NU, Mich, or Penn automatically get SoCal BigLaw if they want it?

In some circles in California, you might be even better off going to UCLA/USC than Northwestern or Michigan. This is just my own opinion, but I'd say UCLA/USC > NU in California. Michigan is a great school but not that much better, if at all, than UCLA/USC if you want to work in southern California. I'd rank your options as follows:

H/S > CCN > Penn > UCLA/USC = Mich = NU

I think it'd be a no-brainer to go to H/S or CCN over UCLA/USC, but it's not as clear whether Penn, Michigan, or NU would be better for what you want. I'd knock NU out of the running and think carefully about whether Michigan is worth it.

Honestly, you're not going to go wrong whatever you decide. This is a good problem to have.

I agree with bolded. A friend of mine graduated a year or two ago from USC. She was in a similar situation- had great stats, & got into a bunch of T14 schools, but knew she wanted CA post grad. She got dinged from Stanford and Berk was too expensive so she went to Gould and loved it, has her dream job now. Just my two cents. Obviously H or S are the clear choices but I agree with UCLA/USC being pretty equivalent to Mich or NU after you factor in your definite desire to be employed in CA.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your responses! Yea, I think at this point I'm really torn between going with UCLA/USC and taking a higher risk of striking out with the larger firms but having easier access to many of the mid-size/under-market but still good paying firms in LA/OC/SD or going with Penn and having a (presumably) higher likelihood of doing well with the larger firms, but having less access to the other firms in the SoCal area.

Really hoping a CCN comes through, I think that will make for a much easier decision.
Any more thoughts are super appreciated!

[Mullens]

Is there any info on how transfers do at USC/UCLA OCI? Are those schools pre-select or full lottery? I would recommend Columbia or Penn over USC/UCLA if the OCI situation at those two schools is not full lottery.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any info on how transfers do at USC/UCLA OCI? Are those schools pre-select or full lottery? I would recommend Columbia or Penn over USC/UCLA if the OCI situation at those two schools is not full lottery.

UCLA is 30% pre-select/70% lottery, Penn is 100% lottery. I received some info that "over 50% of transfers obtained OCI jobs" from UCLA.

[Anonymous User]

I shortened the original post to make it easier on everyone. I'd love to hear more opinions!

[Anonymous User]

I shortened the original post to make it easier on everyone. I'd love to hear more opinions!

Updated the poll/post! Thoughts are much appreciated.

[hmzator]

chicago...hands down. congrats!

[browniestasty]

Since you and your spouse are very set on CA after graduation, I really think UCLA is roughly equal to Chicago if not superior.

Is your spouse already working? If so, UCLA is likely the better choice since she could start looking for full time job in area right away while you finish school and just get a job in the area. I think that's just some real life considerations for a married man but this is a rather personal decision.

That said Chicago will be a much more portable degree.

[champloo]

Since you and your spouse are very set on CA after graduation, I really think UCLA is roughly equal to Chicago if not superior.

Is your spouse already working? If so, UCLA is likely the better choice since she could start looking for full time job in area right away while you finish school and just get a job in the area. I think that's just some real life considerations for a married man but this is a rather personal decision.

That said Chicago will be a much more portable degree.

I don't seem to get it. Are you saying UCLA>=UChi for socal biglaw, at equal COA, and not considering spouse? I'm not sure this is correct. At equal cost Chicago is the safer choice for almost all situations.

[Anonymous User]

Since you and your spouse are very set on CA after graduation, I really think UCLA is roughly equal to Chicago if not superior.

Is your spouse already working? If so, UCLA is likely the better choice since she could start looking for full time job in area right away while you finish school and just get a job in the area. I think that's just some real life considerations for a married man but this is a rather personal decision.

That said Chicago will be a much more portable degree.

I don't seem to get it. Are you saying UCLA>=UChi for socal biglaw, at equal COA, and not considering spouse? I'm not sure this is correct. At equal cost Chicago is the safer choice for almost all situations.

OP here: Just for clarification, spouse can obtain work in either LA or Chicago in both the short term and long term (transfer flexibility with current employer), so that's not really a big consideration. It's more a question of (1) can I be competitive for SoCal BigLaw jobs at Chicago's OCI? and (2) can I be successful mass mailing SoCal firms not coming to Chicago's OCI?

Chicago doesn't start classes until late Sept. and their OCI is the week after UCLA's. So I can be in LA for mass mail interviews if need be that first week of August, then go to Chicago for OCI (and obviously be available for CBs anywhere after OCI). Lot of travel, but doable.

Good considerations though, I appreciate everyone's input!

[clshopeful]

you got dinged at Berk but got into Chicago? what a world we live in

[Anonymous User]

you got dinged at Berk but got into Chicago? what a world we live in

Yeah, in at Penn too. I was a little surprised but Berk is really GPA heavy and they had some great transfer GPAs this year. Must've just missed the cut.