Penn v. CLS Forum
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Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.
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Penn v. CLS
Sorry to add another one of these posts, but I am looking for some perspective.
I was admitted to both Penn and CLS this week. I have no desire to work in NYC BigLaw, and am most interested in either DC or Chicago BigLaw.
I really liked the Penn campus on my visit to Philadelphia and am not the biggest fan of NYC, but do you all think the job prospects/prestige of CLS is worth a little "discomfort" with moving to NYC?
Are there any real advantages for transfers into one school over another?
Any thoughts are much appreciated! Thank you!
I was admitted to both Penn and CLS this week. I have no desire to work in NYC BigLaw, and am most interested in either DC or Chicago BigLaw.
I really liked the Penn campus on my visit to Philadelphia and am not the biggest fan of NYC, but do you all think the job prospects/prestige of CLS is worth a little "discomfort" with moving to NYC?
Are there any real advantages for transfers into one school over another?
Any thoughts are much appreciated! Thank you!
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: Penn v. CLS
Sounds like Penn would be perfect. The schools produce very similar outcomes, with the most notable difference being Columbia's location and ties to NYC. If that doesn't mean anything to you and you prefer Penn, by all means go there! I don't think you'll be giving up anything with respect to your career.
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Re: Penn v. CLS
I understand the fact that you have no desire to work in NYC Big Law. I submitted five apps and had NYU and CLS ready to go for the deadlines. However, I just couldn't see myself going back to NYC. Despite the fact that both schools have a great reputation, I trashed my NYU and CLS app as soon as I heard back from another school, even though the school was ranked a few points lower. Basically, I get the aversion to NYC.
That being said, Penn seems to place a lot of people in New York. Make sure you can break into other markets from Penn. There is nothing wrong with calling career services and asking them about the stats for jobs outside NYC. If Penn is just another stepping stone into New York, then you might as well take Columbia given the fact that it's ranked higher and will open more doors in the future (especially if you ever want academia, a job overseas, or public interest).
That being said, Penn seems to place a lot of people in New York. Make sure you can break into other markets from Penn. There is nothing wrong with calling career services and asking them about the stats for jobs outside NYC. If Penn is just another stepping stone into New York, then you might as well take Columbia given the fact that it's ranked higher and will open more doors in the future (especially if you ever want academia, a job overseas, or public interest).
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: Penn v. CLS
(1) Penn has outstanding national placement. It probably isn't any worse than Columbia outside of NYC.Cerberaus wrote:Make sure you can break into other markets from Penn. There is nothing wrong with calling career services and asking them about the stats for jobs outside NYC. If Penn is just another stepping stone into New York, then you might as well take Columbia given the fact that it's ranked higher and will open more doors in the future (especially if you ever want academia, a job overseas, or public interest).
(2) Columbia's "higher ranking" will mean fuck all going forward, and Columbia is not materially better (if it's better at all?) for placing into academia. Rankings, especially crap like USNWR, are fantasies of law students and not actually meaningful for career trajectory once you're looking at schools this similar and interests this well defined.
- Elston Gunn
- Posts: 3820
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:09 pm
Re: Penn v. CLS
TSL is right given the question you asked, but you should know that DC or Chicago Biglaw could be very difficult from either place (at least without strong Chicago ties). I'd recommend going through CLS EIP threads just to get a sense of how OCI goes. You'll see that people usually don't feel comfortable bidding heavily on DC unless they're at minimum in the top 25% area, and everyone considers it extremely risky not to bid NYC pretty heavily, even if they're top 10%.
Did you get into Northwestern?
Did you get into Northwestern?
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- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Penn v. CLS
I'd say this is an overly cautious narrative, you can bid some DC from stone (which is top ~35-40%) at CLS, although of course no guarantees. People will rightfully tell you to always have a few New York backups but if you have ties to other markets, e.g., LA, Chicago, Boston, ect, you can bid them from a wide range of the class.Elston Gunn wrote:TSL is right given the question you asked, but you should know that DC or Chicago Biglaw could be very difficult from either place (at least without strong Chicago ties). I'd recommend going through CLS EIP threads just to get a sense of how OCI goes. You'll see that people usually don't feel comfortable bidding heavily on DC unless they're at minimum in the top 25% area, and everyone considers it extremely risky not to bid NYC pretty heavily, even if they're top 10%.
Did you get into Northwestern?
That being said, I think Penn and CLS perform identically in DC and in many smaller markets. CLS has an advantage for placing students in New York and California, but it's not significant (at a certain echelon of new york firm, e.g., simpson/cravath/dpw/ect, Columbia stands out a bit more, and so if you're interested in blue chip transactional work, I'd say there is a defined benefit to CLS here, but that's not OP's circumstance.)
For this OP, a strong aversion to new york is easily sufficient justification to choose Penn.
- Tiago Splitter
- Posts: 17148
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am
Re: Penn v. CLS
Are these your only two options? Depending on where you're coming from and your financial situation transferring may not be the best idea.