T30 ---> T6 but have 40 interviews already Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hello all. I currently attend a T30 midwest school. I am somewhere just outside top 10%. I have Law Review, a Cali award, and 25k/year.

I've been accepted to NYU/Columbia. My goal is biglaw, no matter where.

I know for a fact that I will be giving up 40 OCI/other school program interviews if I leave. Around 20 of those should be with V100 firms.

I would also be taking on an additional 95k in total debt by leaving. I am heavily leaning towards staying, since I would essentially be paying for LESS interviews than I already have. Although I know that firms will dig deeper into the class at a T6, my gut tells me that 15+ more interviews at my current school outweighs the 20-25 quality OCI interviews I would get from NYU/Columbia. Plus it is nearly 100k cheaper.

I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before withdrawing.

[baal hadad]

If you just want any biglaw job then I'd just stay

[jbagelboy]

I'm not doubting your decision to stay, but I have two questions:

First, why did you apply to transfer in the first place? And;

Second, have you negotiated to increase your scholarship at your current school?

If you care about working for a top NYC corporate firm, transferring makes sense. If you don't and any biglaw is fine, staying is better. This isn't really about # of interviews though. You can get yourself in front of many more firms than your OCI bids out of CN if you really wanted to.

[Danger Zone]

Stay and it's not even close

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

School won't negotiate. I applied to transfer because I had no idea how many interviews I would pick up andbecause I wanted the option on the table.

[speedtracer]

For what it's worth, I turned down Harvard for similar reasons, being #1 at a lower T1.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Stay and it's not even close

[TA923]

It's not just the quality of the firms that changes if you transfer. Firms are much more likely to CB students from CLS/NYU than they are from your T30. Just because you have the interviews doesn't mean you're necessarily guaranteed anything. I'd transfer.

[TheNextAmendment]

It's not just the quality of the firms that changes if you transfer. Firms are much more likely to CB students from CLS/NYU than they are from your T30. Just because you have the interviews doesn't mean you're necessarily guaranteed anything. I'd transfer.

This is why I transferred from a T20 to NYU. I was in very similar position to you OP. Although firms interview at T30/T20 schools, that doesn't mean they are actually going to CB any; they could just be interviewing at a school to please a partner alum. However, NY has always been my target market, so the decision for me was easy.

[TA923]

Stay and it's not even close

This is laughable.

[Danger Zone]

It's not just the quality of the firms that changes if you transfer. Firms are much more likely to CB students from CLS/NYU than they are from your T30. Just because you have the interviews doesn't mean you're necessarily guaranteed anything. I'd transfer.

THIS is laughable. Show me the data for "more likely to CB from better school" and then we will discuss.

[TA923]

It's not just the quality of the firms that changes if you transfer. Firms are much more likely to CB students from CLS/NYU than they are from your T30. Just because you have the interviews doesn't mean you're necessarily guaranteed anything. I'd transfer.

THIS is laughable. Show me the data for "more likely to CB from better school" and then we will discuss.

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... 0625132212

[Danger Zone]

Do you know what a CB is? Columbia undeniably places more people in biglaw jobs than your average T35, but this data says nothing about once you've gotten past the first interview.

[TheNextAmendment]

Do you know what a CB is? Columbia undeniably places more people in biglaw jobs than your average T35, but this data says nothing about once you've gotten past the first interview.

Look at the data again and think things over. Both schools have OCI in which law firm x attends:

Firm X interviews 30 students at [enter generic T20-30 here]. Firm X interviews 30 students at CLS.
Firm X CBs 10 students at [generic T-20-30]. Firm X CBs 10 students at CLS.
Firm X hires 1 student at [enter generic T20-30]. Firm X hires 8 students at CLS.

You are correct that the OCI process is similar at most schools. The firm interviews 20-30, may even callback the same amount of students, but in the end, better schools have higher conversion rates of CBs to offered positions (see link above).

So, in deciding whether to transfer (when targeting biglaw) the big question is:
Will my rank at my current institution overcome that 10% conversion ratio, or will the 80% conversion ratio of a better school overcome the stigma of being a transfer student?

A CB is not an offer. All that matters is offers.

*All numbers used are based on my knowledge of the OCI process and the assumption that most firms must interview between 20-30 to participate in OCI and that most CB 10*

[1l2016]

*All numbers used are based on my knowledge of the OCI process and the assumption that most firms must interview between 20-30 to participate in OCI and that most CB 10*

This seems like a big assumption. Non-T14 schools often interview for offices not in NYC, etc. So, since these firms are not looking to fill the same # of SA spots as the NYC office is, for example, CB's are not necessarily going to be extended at the same rate.

[Danger Zone]

You are making the (false) assumption that firms interview the same number of students at Columbia as they do at the T35 and the (false) assumption that firms offer CBs to the same number of students. That was the exact data I asked you to show and you just lumped it in as an assumption.

[TheNextAmendment]

*All numbers used are based on my knowledge of the OCI process and the assumption that most firms must interview between 20-30 to participate in OCI and that most CB 10*

This seems like a big assumption. Non-T14 schools often interview for offices not in NYC, etc. So, since these firms are not looking to fill the same # of SA spots as the NYC office is, for example, CB's are not necessarily going to be extended at the same rate.

You're right, but I think you know where I was going with my example.

[TheNextAmendment]

You are making the (false) assumption that firms interview the same number of students at Columbia as they do at the T35 and the (false) assumption that firms offer CBs to the same number of students. That was the exact data I asked you to show and you just lumped it in as an assumption.

The data doesn't exist. If it did, LST would be all over it. But I think my example makes some sense in demonstrating that CBs mean nothing. All that matters is offers.

[Danger Zone]

But we already knew that Columbia students get more offers than those at a T35. Are you just being willfully dense at this point?

[mw115]

Do you know what a CB is? Columbia undeniably places more people in biglaw jobs than your average T35, but this data says nothing about once you've gotten past the first interview.

Look at the data again and think things over. Both schools have OCI in which law firm x attends:

Firm X interviews 30 students at [enter generic T20-30 here]. Firm X interviews 30 students at CLS.
Firm X CBs 10 students at [generic T-20-30]. Firm X CBs 10 students at CLS.
Firm X hires 1 student at [enter generic T20-30]. Firm X hires 8 students at CLS.

You are correct that the OCI process is similar at most schools. The firm interviews 20-30, may even callback the same amount of students, but in the end, better schools have higher conversion rates of CBs to offered positions (see link above).

So, in deciding whether to transfer (when targeting biglaw) the big question is:
Will my rank at my current institution overcome that 10% conversion ratio, or will the 80% conversion ratio of a better school overcome the stigma of being a transfer student?

A CB is not an offer. All that matters is offers.

*All numbers used are based on my knowledge of the OCI process and the assumption that most firms must interview between 20-30 to participate in OCI and that most CB 10*

Your assumptions are completely false. Also, the new firms are going to judge you on the same criterion they judge everyone else at your old school - and then you'll have to overcome the assumption that you are a flighty prestige harlot.

[TheNextAmendment]

Somehow I knew that using numbers to demonstrate a point would get people heated.
@Dangerzone, why are you interested in the # of CBs? I'm just curious. I don't see why that # is that relevant.

[Danger Zone]

Somehow I knew that using numbers to demonstrate a point would get people heated.
@Dangerzone, why are you interested in the # of CBs? I'm just curious. I don't see why that # is that relevant.

The relevant data here is the conversion of screeners into offers, since OP has so many screeners.

[shock259]

The CB to offer conversion ratio is probably lower at a T30 than at CLS/NYU. But still not sure that justifies the price tag and hassle of transferring. This is a hard decision, but I would probably roll the dice and stay at your T30. Just know that you may strike out. If you truly want biglaw at any cost, then transfer. But in this case, the cost is ~$100k.