UChicago or NYU or Duke Forum

[Skipper31]

Resolved

[Nebby]

UChicago for the employment. Both are great schools in neat locations.

[Skipper31]

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[transferror]

If you're interested in biglaw and want access to both Chicago and NYC, then UChi is the clear winner. Access to both markets, better numbers than Duke, comparable employment numbers to NYU but superior placement power in Chicago and really anywhere outside of NYC.

If you just want biglaw and don't care whether it's in NYC or Chicago, flip a coin between Chi and NYU. Duke shouldn't be in the equation.

[Crowing]

I would go to Duke given you have interest in working in the SE and its proximity to your family (that was a major part of my LS decision and is a major concern heading into OCI for me).

[transferror]

I would go to Duke given you have interest in working in the SE and its proximity to your family (that was a major part of my LS decision and is a major concern heading into OCI for me).

The problem with going to a school like Duke and then bidding Southeastern markets is that there's a good chance of striking out. There's no way to safely bid ATL/Charlotte + NYC as a backup. At Duke OCI, OP is only starting with a 50/50 or 60/40 shot to begin with, and bidding insular markets with smaller SA classes/fewer jobs lowers the odds of success. If OP goes the safe route at Duke and bids heavy NYC with ATL/Charlotte sprinkled in, then there's a good chance s/he will end up in NYC anyway and would have been better off going to UChi/NYU and just mass-mailing Charlotte and ATL.

[Crowing]

I would go to Duke given you have interest in working in the SE and its proximity to your family (that was a major part of my LS decision and is a major concern heading into OCI for me).

The problem with going to a school like Duke and then bidding Southeastern markets is that there's a good chance of striking out. There's no way to safely bid ATL/Charlotte + NYC as a backup. At Duke OCI, OP is only starting with a 50/50 or 60/40 shot to begin with, and bidding insular markets with smaller SA classes/fewer jobs lowers the odds of success. If OP goes the safe route at Duke and bids heavy NYC with ATL/Charlotte sprinkled in, then there's a good chance s/he will end up in NYC anyway and would have been better off going to UChi/NYU and just mass-mailing Charlotte and ATL.

Curious what you mean by this. Why can't OP split his bidlist between SE and NY?

On another point 80%+ at Chicago work biglaw during the 2L summer. I don't know how many people skip OCI, but it's a non-negligible amount. It's hard to gauge how many people get a job out of OCI but given that figure it has to be pretty high. I'm skeptical that Duke is so much worse that only 50% leave OCI with jobs.

[Gotallanswers]

Mike, just go to Chicago.

[transferror]

I would go to Duke given you have interest in working in the SE and its proximity to your family (that was a major part of my LS decision and is a major concern heading into OCI for me).

The problem with going to a school like Duke and then bidding Southeastern markets is that there's a good chance of striking out. There's no way to safely bid ATL/Charlotte + NYC as a backup. At Duke OCI, OP is only starting with a 50/50 or 60/40 shot to begin with, and bidding insular markets with smaller SA classes/fewer jobs lowers the odds of success. If OP goes the safe route at Duke and bids heavy NYC with ATL/Charlotte sprinkled in, then there's a good chance s/he will end up in NYC anyway and would have been better off going to UChi/NYU and just mass-mailing Charlotte and ATL.

Curious what you mean by this. Why can't OP split his bidlist between SE and NY?

On another point 80%+ at Chicago work biglaw during the 2L summer. I don't know how many people skip OCI, but it's a non-negligible amount. It's hard to gauge how many people get a job out of OCI but given that figure it has to be pretty high. I'm skeptical that Duke is so much worse that only 50% leave OCI with jobs.

Duke c/o '13 placed 51.5% into biglaw + 8.7% fed clerk. Assuming that students with fed clerk will go into biglaw and that all of these students secured their jobs through OCI (which they most certainly did not), it's a 60/40 chance. This doesn't take into account people who got 2L SAs through OCI and decided to go a different route (boutique/PI) after their SA or got no offered, but assuming that all placement came from OCI should more than compensate for those numbers. I'm guessing that about 50% of Duke students get biglaw through OCI. There are lots of variables - OP has good grades, self-selection into PI/gov, etc. - but those are impossible to assess objectively. It would be great if someone from Duke has OCI info from their CSO and would share some data. Otherwise, 50-60% seems like a reasonable estimate.

As for bids, most people are bidding primarily/all NYC because that's where the jobs are. Top of the class can afford to bid DC. Students with ties to southern/secondary markets will also target those. But the "safest" bet for the majority of students - who are at or right around median - is to bid heavy NYC (Disclaimer: I haven't yet been through OCI, but this has been discussed ad nauseum in OCI threads). My instinct is that the less grade-selective NYC firms with big SA classes will need to be bid pretty high, since median students and below will target those firms and top-thirdish students will use them as safeties. My point is that it's going to be very difficult to put together a decent bid list split b/t these three markets, and would require some guesswork and luck. There's no excuse for taking that risk when UChi and NYU are available.

[Crowing]

I would go to Duke given you have interest in working in the SE and its proximity to your family (that was a major part of my LS decision and is a major concern heading into OCI for me).

The problem with going to a school like Duke and then bidding Southeastern markets is that there's a good chance of striking out. There's no way to safely bid ATL/Charlotte + NYC as a backup. At Duke OCI, OP is only starting with a 50/50 or 60/40 shot to begin with, and bidding insular markets with smaller SA classes/fewer jobs lowers the odds of success. If OP goes the safe route at Duke and bids heavy NYC with ATL/Charlotte sprinkled in, then there's a good chance s/he will end up in NYC anyway and would have been better off going to UChi/NYU and just mass-mailing Charlotte and ATL.

Curious what you mean by this. Why can't OP split his bidlist between SE and NY?

On another point 80%+ at Chicago work biglaw during the 2L summer. I don't know how many people skip OCI, but it's a non-negligible amount. It's hard to gauge how many people get a job out of OCI but given that figure it has to be pretty high. I'm skeptical that Duke is so much worse that only 50% leave OCI with jobs.

Duke c/o '13 placed 51.5% into biglaw + 8.7% fed clerk. Assuming that students with fed clerk will go into biglaw and that all of these students secured their jobs through OCI (which they most certainly did not), it's a 60/40 chance. This doesn't take into account people who got 2L SAs through OCI and decided to go a different route (boutique/PI) after their SA or got no offered, but assuming that all placement came from OCI should more than compensate for those numbers. I'm guessing that about 50% of Duke students get biglaw through OCI. There are lots of variables - OP has good grades, self-selection into PI/gov, etc. - but those are impossible to assess objectively. It would be great if someone from Duke has OCI info from their CSO and would share some data. Otherwise, 50-60% seems like a reasonable estimate.

As for bids, most people are bidding primarily/all NYC because that's where the jobs are. Top of the class can afford to bid DC. Students with ties to southern/secondary markets will also target those. But the "safest" bet for the majority of students - who are at or right around median - is to bid heavy NYC (Disclaimer: I haven't yet been through OCI, but this has been discussed ad nauseum in OCI threads). My instinct is that the less grade-selective NYC firms with big SA classes will need to be bid pretty high, since median students and below will target those firms and top-thirdish students will use them as safeties. My point is that it's going to be very difficult to put together a decent bid list split b/t these three markets, and would require some guesswork and luck. There's no excuse for taking that risk when UChi and NYU are available.

Interesting. At Chicago it's common practice to load up on Chicago or California or Texas or w/e with your top bids because as I understand you're still very likely to get screeners with NY firms with bids in the 10-20 range.

ETA: I would guess if you are going off of LST numbers probably >60% of Duke leaves OCI with an offer since there must be some people who do not participate in OCI. Also biglaw+A3 at Chicago is like 70% iirc yet 80%+ works in biglaw 2L summer, so some people must be doing something else after the biglaw SA.

[skers]

I would worry a bit targeting Chicago as a transfer w/ nothing else on your resume or anything else that said Chicago otherwise.