Transfer to Lewis and Clark? Forum

[georgiaboy]

I am currently a law student in New York City. I do like the city but I found this year very difficult because of the expense of living in NYC, I am currently having housing problems so I am considering a transfer. I am mostly worried about dropping in Ranking and going to a region I have no real knowledge about except I had visited Portland for about 2 weeks while researching undergraduate schools. I am currently at Cardozo and have a decent scholarship.

My problem is that even with a scholarship the school in NYC is still way more expensive because of housing, and tuition costs that are not covered, over what I am getting at Lewis and Clark. My future goals do not have me working in big law NYC but I do have a fondness for it and might want to try to have some law job there in the future, but that job does not have to be fancy, it could be doc review, I would not mind. In addition, my real life plan has me moving to California or Florida sometime in the near future.

My main concern with transferring is that my current resume is good, and it will get better, I have already worked, I have volunteer activities, and this semester I start working at a clinic. In addition, I meet all my requirements to graduate this semester. My 4th, 5th, and 6th semester will be elective courses until I graduate.

If I go to Lewis and Clark, I worry that I have to take Criminal Procedure which I don't think I need, and I won't have a clinic. However, at Lewis and Clark it will be easy for me to get an apartment, and can afford it for the 2 years I have left. In addition, I will be saving lots of money. In my mind the school's current ranking of 80 from it's good ranking last year of 58 makes me a bit nervous. I am also not sure if I will be okay in Portland for the next 2 years, but the security it offers is motivating me to transfer. By the end of every semester in NYC I have to borrow money because I run out, and I am penny-pinching and living like a bum. Should I let the ranking and loss of clinic influence my decision, or should I transfer and save the money. I will be saving about $60,000 or more if I make the switch, mostly all from living expenses alone. Should I transfer?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I am not commenting on what you should do in this situation (although you should probably go to Lewis and Clark only if you want to work in the PNW). I'm just pointing out that Lewis and Clark has clinics and you can do a clinic during 3L. Coursework should not really be a concern in this equation.

[MormonChristian]

I am currently a law student in New York City. I do like the city but I found this year very difficult because of the expense of living in NYC, I am currently having housing problems so I am considering a transfer. Should I transfer?

I am unable to follow your bouncing ball. Have you applied to transfer to L&C? The deadline was July 15th. If you applied, were you accepted?


If you are waiting until next semester, you still have the expense and housing financial problems you mentioned.

[rinkrat19]

Going to L&C basically limits you to working in Portland. The legal market in Portland is miniscule. (Think around 30 "biglaw-esque" summer associate positions in the entire market.) Portland is also pretty insular, and you'll be working to convince firms that you want to be there and not NYC, where you've lived already and where you'd (theoretically) make more money.

[georgiaboy]

Thank you for the replies.

Yes, if you were confused from what I meant, I got accepted into Lewis and Clark and am considering the transfer due to it being cheaper and providing me with a secured living condition, but I am worried about some things I mentioned. I do not want to be confined to Portland as I will probably leave the city once I graduate from the school, but in my mind I know I should not be too worried about this, I really do not think it's possible ever since I got a job outside of New York in my home state this year (I couldn't even find a job in NY and barely tried since I did not want to stay).

Maybe I am lucky but ever since going to Law School I am not as confined to the idea that I will be stuck in the area I am going to school far, but I learned the reason people say this is because they are just considering big law, and even some firms jobs in popular areas, but I am not at all. So I am not sure if I will be confined to Portland or the PNW if I go to Lewis and Clark, most everyone I knew from that school got their jobs in San Francisco.

I do not want to stay in the Pacific North West and will probably move to California or Florida like I had mentioned. But I am still concern with going to a lower ranked school that is easier to get into? Does anyone know if this would have an effect? Is Cardozo really that great of a school that allows me to get a job outside of NYC? Is it because of the ranking? Or is it just the fact that I am from a NYC law school that is making things easier for me to get a job? Or will I find it all the same once I go to Portland? I am also wondering if transferring would have a negative affect, I think the reason schools discourage it so much has to do with the way you are building your resume. I feel like if I go to Lewis and Clark my resume might stop improving, but I am not sure if I am just seeing things wrong.

I am also concerned maybe the professors are not as good, for some reason just about every professor I had was famous or did something really great, but I am not sure?

I am aware that these questions cannot really be answered, but they are my concerns, should I try to answer these questions by transferring? Or would I play it safe by staying in NYC, which would make things really hard for me, living wise, since I would have a hard time making up the money.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You got a job outside NYC because it was in your home state - you had ties to that location. Going from any of the schools you're considering to California or Florida, without ties to those locations, is going to be extremely difficult.

(Also, there are good and bad professors at every law school. That's also not a consideration for transferring.)

[atcushman]

this would be a terrible idea based on everything you have said. I am born and raised in PNW. Portland market is small, PNW is insular, you have no ties and no hope of using L&C to break into California or Florida.

[rinkrat19]

Out of a graduating class of 209 at L&C:

179 grads reported some sort of employment (remember, this includes working at Starbucks or "opening up my own shop").
140 grads reported where they got a job.
116 grads got jobs in Oregon.
16 grads got jobs in California.
9 grads got jobs in Washington.
3 got jobs in other countries.
39 grads we don't have a state for.

[rad lulz]

.

[georgiaboy]

No one in FL gives a shit about Cardozo or Lewis and Clark

I'm from Florida, it seems to me that no one in Florida cares about the school's name but I am not sure, I am under the belief that they mostly care that the school is in NYC, and it seems to me that they care about it a lot, but it also could be the School's name and ranking.

You got a job outside NYC because it was in your home state - you had ties to that location. Going from any of the schools you're considering to California or Florida, without ties to those locations, is going to be extremely difficult.

(Also, there are good and bad professors at every law school. That's also not a consideration for transferring.)

Thank you for this comment, I also was thinking that professor's reputation shouldn't matter in my consideration, but I am thinking of the professor's connections too. If you were wondering though, I know the job market sounds bleak but I also got jobs in Atlanta, D.C., Seattle, and Hawaii, but I turned those down to go to my home state where things were cheaper. I do not think ties really matter, especially since I feel like I have zero ties in my home state since I know no one here, the only thing that ties me to this state is that my license is from from here, but even that has a New York address now. My employer still thinks I am from New York and has no clue that I am from here, I have to keep reminding them.

Also I was wondering, why you think coursework should not matter? Many people tell me this and to this day, I am not 100% sure what they mean?

this would be a terrible idea based on everything you have said. I am born and raised in PNW. Portland market is small, PNW is insular, you have no ties and no hope of using L&C to break into California or Florida.

I am thinking of transferring to Portland because it's cheaper, I am wondering what my chances of breaking into these states would be coming from Cardozo or Lewis and Clark, I understand it's hard coming from L&C but how much harder compared to Cardozo? I'm not really trying to break into any of these states, I am just wondering what people would think of me in these states if I came from Lewis and Clark, if you knew, because I am now aware of what people think of me coming from Cardozo, so far it's been regarded highly, I don't get big law jobs by handing in my resume alone but I do get several legal jobs without even submitting a resume. I am really worried about my 2L year because I am worried I will not be able to afford housing for the full year in NYC.

[rinkrat19]

People are saying that it's going to be really, incredibly hard to get jobs in any state other than where the school is located from either school, but at least Cardozo is in a big market so you're marginally less likely to end up unemployed and financially ruined.

If you'd asked for advice a year ago, you would have been told to not attend Cardozo if you didn't want to work in NY, and to certainly not attend it for more than six figures in debt.

[georgiaboy]

People are saying that it's going to be really, incredibly hard to get jobs in any state other than where the school is located from either school, but at least Cardozo is in a big market so you're marginally less likely to end up unemployed and financially ruined.

If you'd asked for advice a year ago, you would have been told to not attend Cardozo if you didn't want to work in NY, and to certainly not attend it for more than six figures in debt.

Thanks, so I was wondering, what market is that? Is Cardozo just the New York City market or the East Coast Market? I haven't had problems getting jobs outside of New York City so if the same turns out to be true at L&C and getting jobs outside of Portland, I would be considering it. I can basically lower my tuition to zero if I go to Portland so I am considering it. I do not want my debt to go to the 6 figures.

[rinkrat19]

People are saying that it's going to be really, incredibly hard to get jobs in any state other than where the school is located from either school, but at least Cardozo is in a big market so you're marginally less likely to end up unemployed and financially ruined.

If you'd asked for advice a year ago, you would have been told to not attend Cardozo if you didn't want to work in NY, and to certainly not attend it for more than six figures in debt.

Thanks, so I was wondering, what market is that? Is Cardozo just the New York City market or the East Coast Market? I haven't had problems getting jobs outside of New York City so if the same turns out to be true at L&C and getting jobs outside of Portland, I would be considering it. I can basically lower my tuition to zero if I go to Portland so I am considering it. I do not want my debt to go to the 6 figures.

Cardozo's market is NYC. L&C's is Portland. One is roughly a thousand times larger than the other in terms of legal jobs. Neither school has any prestige outside its home market. And getting a permanent post-grad job is entirely different from getting a summer gig. Pretty much anyone can get a 1L summer job somewhere. You'd have a much harder time getting permanent employment in any of those other states.
Basically I think both are bad options, and by insisting that you don't want to work in NY, you're making the slightly better option much worse.

[georgiaboy]

People are saying that it's going to be really, incredibly hard to get jobs in any state other than where the school is located from either school, but at least Cardozo is in a big market so you're marginally less likely to end up unemployed and financially ruined.

If you'd asked for advice a year ago, you would have been told to not attend Cardozo if you didn't want to work in NY, and to certainly not attend it for more than six figures in debt.

Thanks, so I was wondering, what market is that? Is Cardozo just the New York City market or the East Coast Market? I haven't had problems getting jobs outside of New York City so if the same turns out to be true at L&C and getting jobs outside of Portland, I would be considering it. I can basically lower my tuition to zero if I go to Portland so I am considering it. I do not want my debt to go to the 6 figures.

Cardozo's market is NYC. L&C's is Portland. One is roughly a thousand times larger than the other in terms of legal jobs. Neither school has any prestige outside its home market. And getting a permanent post-grad job is entirely different from getting a summer gig. Pretty much anyone can get a 1L summer job somewhere. You'd have a much harder time getting permanent employment in any of those other states.
Basically I think both are bad options, and by insisting that you don't want to work in NY, you're making the slightly better option much worse.

So NYC is slightly better option in your opinion then?

[dr123]

If you want to be in CA, why don't you go to CA? No sense in going to OR.

[georgiaboy]

If you want to be in CA, why don't you go to CA? No sense in going to OR.

Thanks, it was a price problem, like NYC, California is pricey and I cannot seem to figure out how to make it to the end of the semester without running out of money.

[jarofsoup]

You may pay more rent, but it may be worth it if you get a placement in your market. FYI salaries are much lower in places where rent is cheaper....

[georgiaboy]

You may pay more rent, but it may be worth it if you get a placement in your market. FYI salaries are much lower in places where rent is cheaper....

Thanks, I was thinking of this, but I realize there is not much difference in Salary boost. For the most part, you can buy an apartment in NYC but just about all your money goes to pay the apartment. It is also much worse when you have a huge loan. When I came to NYC I thought I would be going for just about free. But I realized that Schools like Cardozo adjust your budget so you can afford to live in the area, when they do this they increase your tuition by thousands, which was my problem. For this reason I am considering moving, most jobs people get pay about $90,000 a year but they are super stressful time consumers compared to similar jobs in Florida or California. Not to mention this job in Florida will give you about $50,000 a year. The only problem is that $90,000 in NYC does not go that far, because unlike a state like Florida most of it goes to taxes and the rest goes to the apartment. What is left goes to the loans for several years, so for that reason I am considering not working in NYC at all once I graduate. In Florida $50,000 is similar to the $90,000 in NYC, but perhaps even better. So I am considering the Portland switch because if the law thing does not work out I pretty much have a small loan to pay off so I would be fine.