Transfer ADVICE Forum

[aep11]

Top 20-15% at a T-30 was interested in Penn that probably won't happen now but is it worth applying?

Would Mich or NW be worth giving up a full scholarship for East Coast Biglaw? Could I even get in?

I would think i could get into Georgetown but that probably would not be worth sticker right?

[Nammertat]

Your grades/rank should be able to get you screeners at east coast biglaw if you play your cards right. I can't picture a scenario that would make GULC worth sticker compared to full ride.

[auds1008]

personally i think anything in t14 is better than non-t14, even sticker, because your cred follows you forever.

[laxbrah420]

personally i think anything in t14 is better than non-t14, even sticker, because your cred follows you forever.

That's an interesting observation and at odds with the general TLS consensus. Could you elaborate this, and perhaps include your qualifications?

[auds1008]

personally i think anything in t14 is better than non-t14, even sticker, because your cred follows you forever.

That's an interesting observation and at odds with the general TLS consensus. Could you elaborate this, and perhaps include your qualifications?

Well, my response is based on OP's desire for East Coast Biglaw, so i'm assuming DC, NY, Boston. Unless OP goes to a market that prestige matters little to none, I wouldn't respond differently.

For me, my case is more extreme but i think it still speaks truth to some degree. I transferred from a TTTT to T20 and people simply treat you differently, whether it's OCI or just a social event, especially your transfer is outside of your existing category, i.e., TTTT to T2, T2 to T1, T1 to T14, etc. By transferring, people know you worked hard, they know you want to strive for better. Plus, if you're going to these competitive areas, might as well have something competitive on your resume. I submitted my bids for non-OCI interview programs last year without having the T20 school on my resume, and I had very little number of pre-selects. I can just see the interviewers look at me differently when I handed them my updated resume. I also managed to get an offer at a firm through their hospitality suite with the updated resume when I had bid on them with my TTTT school.

In the long term, regardless of how the economy is, people go to prestige. It's just human nature. In OP's case of T30, I'm not sure what the mental equivalence of T30 1% is to the % at T14 but it feels different. Also, your grades will not matter 30 years down the road, so again, it comes back to your school. Unless your work experience is unique, you're always judged by your school.

You may say that prestige isn't everything, but in this legal profession, prestige is ALMOST everything.

[Nammertat]

personally i think anything in t14 is better than non-t14, even sticker, because your cred follows you forever.

That's an interesting observation and at odds with the general TLS consensus. Could you elaborate this, and perhaps include your qualifications?

Well, my response is based on OP's desire for East Coast Biglaw, so i'm assuming DC, NY, Boston. Unless OP goes to a market that prestige matters little to none, I wouldn't respond differently.

For me, my case is more extreme but i think it still speaks truth to some degree. I transferred from a TTTT to T20 and people simply treat you differently, whether it's OCI or just a social event, especially your transfer is outside of your existing category, i.e., TTTT to T2, T2 to T1, T1 to T14, etc. By transferring, people know you worked hard, they know you want to strive for better. Plus, if you're going to these competitive areas, might as well have something competitive on your resume. I submitted my bids for non-OCI interview programs last year without having the T20 school on my resume, and I had very little number of pre-selects. I can just see the interviewers look at me differently when I handed them my updated resume. I also managed to get an offer at a firm through their hospitality suite with the updated resume when I had bid on them with my TTTT school.

In the long term, regardless of how the economy is, people go to prestige. It's just human nature. In OP's case of T30, I'm not sure what the mental equivalence of T30 1% is to the % at T14 but it feels different. Also, your grades will not matter 30 years down the road, so again, it comes back to your school. Unless your work experience is unique, you're always judged by your school.

You may say that prestige isn't everything, but in this legal profession, prestige is ALMOST everything.

I strongly disagree with most of the reasoning in this analysis.

First, we're not talking about a TTTT crap-law school, OP is at a T30 on a full ride. There is a remarkable difference between florida coastal and GULC... but the difference is MUCH smaller when you're already at a T30 school. Yes, there are certain firms that will not go to OP's OCI, but many will attend and not stick their nose up at a guy near the top of his class because he's not at a school ranked 10 spots lower.

Second, we're not comparing median-to-median opportunities here- OP notes top 15-20%. ESPECIALLY if OP's school does a preselect rather than lottery OCI, it's very possible that OP gets an even better draw where he is (big fish, small pond). I work with a HLS guy who has to deal with the lottery system and will miss out on some of the OCI screeners he wanted. Certainly the Yankees' average hitter is going to show up Idaho State's average, but that difference shrinks a ton when you compare the Yankees' best with the Mariners' best. [insert burn on Mariners sucking] Prestige matters in terms of your average guy getting opportunities that he wouldn't otherwise get, but goes out the window when you're talking the top vs. the top. Yes it makes a difference who's office you'll get screeners at, but to say that "prestige is almost everything," destroys any credibility you may have had. Prestige comes from what you have done and what you can do in the future, not where you got your JD. (I don't think I need to cite the dozens of V20 partners from non T14 law schools.)

Third, you don't need to transfer to "show that you work hard." Getting top tier grades will handle that dilemma, and if the firm didn't think that the grades were relevant they wouldn't be at that school to begin with.

Fourth, you're absolutely right that 30 years from now your grades won't matter. (heck, probably 4 years from now your grades won't matter) BUT you are absolutely wrong that your school will be the difference 30 years from now either. Nobody cares where you went to school if you got out and did big things. After your first or second job, nobody will give a crap where you got your JD from. At my SA we have people from Harvard and Yale down to the University of Hawaii.... (turns out they have a law school)

OP- I'm not saying you should 100% stay where you're at, but do NOT make a marginal transfer thinking it will be the crux of your career. If you can jump to a T6, AND you're set on a V10 firm, AND your school does a lottery OCI, then consider a move.

[aep11]

My OCI is all pre select I believe, originally i had only planned to apply to CCN and P but my grades dropped a little.

Would a move to NW or M be worth it? We get the list of firms that are coming to OCI in the next few days I think, being from the Philly area P would be a good fit for me but my goals are any biglaw before Philly biglaw

[Nammertat]

My OCI is all pre select I believe, originally i had only planned to apply to CCN and P but my grades dropped a little.

Would a move to NW or M be worth it? We get the list of firms that are coming to OCI in the next few days I think, being from the Philly area P would be a good fit for me but my goals are any biglaw before Philly biglaw

I would see if you can get ahold of the OCI list from any school you are considering and compare it with yours. Penn would definitely be worth an app if you're at all considering Philly/DC. (not entirely out of your league, but a tough one) The good news is that you can always apply and not go... toss some apps out and then make the tough decisions when they are in your lap.