SMU PT -> UT Forum

[Anonymous User]

Well, I'm going to attempt to keep myself anonymous, but since there's only like seventy people in my section I'm sure someone will recognize me....

I'm in the evening section at SMU, and working full time. The school will not release our specific rankings until our entire 1L course work is complete. However, last semester I made the dean's list (top 25%), and my GPA was well above the top 33% cutoff of 3.262. If I had to take a wild guess I'd say I'm in or near the top 10%.

At the end of this semester, I will have completed contracts, torts, civ pro, and legal writing. Next semester we take property 1, crim law, and con law, so at the end of that semester I will "only" be missing property 2.

Assuming my grades hold up, what are my changes at UT and when is the best time to apply? I realize I'm facing an uphill battle here, since the credits I have are all messed up. Should I apply at the end of this spring semester? Or would it be better to wait until the end of next semester when I will have completed all but one 1L class? I am a Texas resident.

[nouseforaname123]

Tough to pull off because of UT's transfer requirements. When I looked into it, UT requires a minimum number of completed credit hours (~28?) to be eligible to transfer. You'll have 21 hours after your 1E year, so that's out.

The real problem is that you should have 43 hours after your 2E year. From what I remember, UT might not allow you to transfer with that many hours because every school requires you to complete a certain minimum number of hours in residency (every school requires you to complete roughly 2/3 of your hours in residency at that school, but you'll be done with half your hours). Or it could be that you'll need to complete 60 credit hours at UT to graduate, meaning that you'll complete a total of ~100 credit hours between SMU/UT when everybody else graduates with 87 hours. Does that make sense?

What you could do is take a leave of absence after your 2E fall semester. You'll have 32 credit hours at that point, placing you in a similar position to typical transfer candidates. You would then sit out spring semester and try to transfer to UT. If your transfer app fails, you'll have to bust your hump to graduate on time because you'll need to make up the semester you miss.

On a sidenote, if you have the credentials to transfer, IMHO, absent special circumstances, transferring to UT isn't worth it. IMHO, for OCI purposes:

SMU Top 10% + LR > UT transfer student.

At SMU you'll get all the screening interviews you want and you'll be in the position of having the strongest credentials in the applicant pool. You'll have a broader ranger of employers at UT (particularly out of state), but you'll be subject to their hybrid lottery/preselect system and you won't have the strongest credentials in the applicant pool. IMHO, the broader range of employers + improved clerkship chances are not worth giving up top 10% & LR in a fully preselect system where ~15% of the students are going to get biglaw.

UT's transfer requirements. Very tough for a PT student to pull off.

[patrickd139]

I disagree with nouse's assertion that SMU PT (at top 10%) is a better position to be in than UT. This is especially true if you're paying sticker for SMU. However, it may be a moot point since UT is a notoriously difficult school to transfer into from any school under any circumstance. For that reason, I'd suggest that (if you're planning to transfer) you better cast a wide net. Many of us who applied to transfer to UT got into much higher ranked and peer schools, but not UT.

Why do you need to transfer from SMU to UT? They're one of the few schools which eschew numbers for numbers sake and admit students with a compelling reason to transfer. It's usually the other way around.

[nouseforaname123]

I disagree with nouse's assertion that SMU PT (at top 10%) is a better position to be in than UT. This is especially true if you're paying sticker for SMU.

Curious as to why you disagree (other than the financial aspect)? It's just my opinion, so I know I could be wrong.

I'm fairly well-informed about the OCI results for students who were working FT, doing PT, top 10% and on LR in my class year. TBF, it's a limited sample size of about five people, but that group did very well at OCI. I have a hard time believing a transfer student to UT is going to match those results.

I don't want to out myself or discuss the specifics of how my friends did at OCI, but I'll say that GDC is the only vault firm in Dallas that I can think of that shutout this demographic at OCI. Assuming that OP's work experience is at least semi-professional, OP should be in the driver's seat at SMU OCI.

Sure, I would rather be top 10% at UT than at SMU, but that's different from being top 10% at SMU vs. transfer at UT.

[patrickd139]

My post was based on the (now defunct, apparently) assumption that SMU PTers were no longer getting biglaw jobs post '08 crash. If that's changed, then it's a much closer decision than my post indicates.

That said, the financial aspect is a huge, huge part of it.