T-20 to other T-30+ with 2.45 Forum

[Anonymous User]

So I'm 100% sure I want to transfer out of the University of Minnesota Law School (a T-20 school). Not only is it not the right fit for me, I really messed up first semester. I have a 2.45 gpa. Am I stuck at UMN or can I transfer out to another school in the T-30? I'm hoping to re-locate to NY.

[cinephile]

What? You're hoping to relocate to NY, but you're trying to do that by going to UMN?? That doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL unless you're hoping to end up in Minnesota/you're from Minnesota and have family reasons to go home.

If you got a 4.0 this semester, what would your GPA be? Would that be around median for your school? If so, maybe a lateral transfer could happen . . . but how does one get a 2.45? Where does this place you in your class rank?

Also, have you considered dropping out? I know a guy with a 3.3 who dropped out after first semester and started fresh somewhere else the following year as a 1L, not a transfer, but since he dropped out with a relatively good GPA his situation might be a bit different than yours.

[KidStuddi]

So I'm 100% sure I want to transfer out of the University of Minnesota Law School (a T-20 school). Not only is it not the right fit for me, I really messed up first semester. I have a 2.45 gpa. Am I stuck at UMN or can I transfer out to another school in the T-30? I'm hoping to re-locate to NY.

You're almost certainly not going to gain transfer admission absent a very compelling reason for the grades and a complete 180 this semester. Consider dropping out.

[a11 1n]

So I'm 100% sure I want to transfer out of the University of Minnesota Law School (a T-20 school). Not only is it not the right fit for me, I really messed up first semester. I have a 2.45 gpa. Am I stuck at UMN or can I transfer out to another school in the T-30? I'm hoping to re-locate to NY.

What? You're hoping to relocate to NY, but you're trying to do that by going to UMN?? That doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL unless you're hoping to end up in Minnesota/you're from Minnesota and have family reasons to go home.

If you got a 4.0 this semester, what would your GPA be? Would that be around median for your school? If so, maybe a lateral transfer could happen . . . but how does one get a 2.45? Where does this place you in your class rank?

Also, have you considered dropping out? I know a guy with a 3.3 who dropped out after first semester and started fresh somewhere else the following year as a 1L, not a transfer, but since he dropped out with a relatively good GPA his situation might be a bit different than yours.

Looks like we had a bit of a miscommunication here.

OP, I think you are at a serious disadvantage with that GPA. A school like Fordham has plenty of students that finished in the top third at TT and in the top 10% at TTT gunning to transfer and have a good chance at breaking into the large NY market. Saying you were miserable in Minnesota will not make many adcoms sympathetic. I think you should put some serious thought into dropping out unless you have a full-ride. Not sure how reapplying works after having been enrolled for a semester, but if it is an option, it will be much more likely than outright transferring with that abysmal GPA.

[cinephile]

Thanks to the above poster. I did misread the OP.

That being said, you have to do something dramatic this semester to bring your grades up to a 4.33 if you have any hope of transferring.

[venzhlev]

What? You're hoping to relocate to NY, but you're trying to do that by going to UMN?? That doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL unless you're hoping to end up in Minnesota/you're from Minnesota and have family reasons to go home.

If you got a 4.0 this semester, what would your GPA be? Would that be around median for your school? If so, maybe a lateral transfer could happen . . . but how does one get a 2.45? Where does this place you in your class rank?

Also, have you considered dropping out? I know a guy with a 3.3 who dropped out after first semester and started fresh somewhere else the following year as a 1L, not a transfer, but since he dropped out with a relatively good GPA his situation might be a bit different than yours.

Read the person's post. Says that s/he wants to transfer out of UMN. Seems like everyone is saying that a NY T-30 schools (Fordham) will not take you or that you should drop out. I really don't know how anyone would know whether Fordham would accept you unless they are working in Fordham's admission's office, which I doubt anyone is. I had a similar GPA my first semester and it was not fatal. You gotta work on your test taking skills. It is a huge waste of money, time, and effort to drop out.

[stillwater]

What? You're hoping to relocate to NY, but you're trying to do that by going to UMN?? That doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL unless you're hoping to end up in Minnesota/you're from Minnesota and have family reasons to go home.

If you got a 4.0 this semester, what would your GPA be? Would that be around median for your school? If so, maybe a lateral transfer could happen . . . but how does one get a 2.45? Where does this place you in your class rank?

Also, have you considered dropping out? I know a guy with a 3.3 who dropped out after first semester and started fresh somewhere else the following year as a 1L, not a transfer, but since he dropped out with a relatively good GPA his situation might be a bit different than yours.

Read the person's post. Says that s/he wants to transfer out of UMN. Seems like everyone is saying that a NY T-30 schools (Fordham) will not take you or that you should drop out. I really don't know how anyone would know whether Fordham would accept you unless they are working in Fordham's admission's office, which I doubt anyone is. I had a similar GPA my first semester and it was not fatal. You gotta work on your test taking skills. It is a huge waste of money, time, and effort to drop out.

I'm not going to comment on the logic of that particular statement.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not going to consider dropping out for a number of reasons, though as everyone does, I share a concern for the future. I'm strictly looking into mitigating the bad gpa, and moving forward. At this point I'm thinking about how to best accomplish transferring out of UMN in a practical, strategic sense. I know my grades will go up this semester overall, but that huge jump is not going to happen.

And no I certainly do not hate UMN or Minnesota. It's just not the right fit, and my gpa sucks.

[northwood]

you need to focus on exam taking. Meet with your professors to go over past exams, and meet with the schools writing instructor. You need to do much better this semester to transfer. I would not worry about transferring or spend any time on the transfer application, but instead focus your time on your exam prep and class prep ( to help you prep for exams). If you do really hate UMN and you want to go back- contact fordham and explain to them your situation ( leave out grades) and see what they say.

best of luck

[venzhlev]

What? You're hoping to relocate to NY, but you're trying to do that by going to UMN?? That doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL unless you're hoping to end up in Minnesota/you're from Minnesota and have family reasons to go home.

If you got a 4.0 this semester, what would your GPA be? Would that be around median for your school? If so, maybe a lateral transfer could happen . . . but how does one get a 2.45? Where does this place you in your class rank?

Also, have you considered dropping out? I know a guy with a 3.3 who dropped out after first semester and started fresh somewhere else the following year as a 1L, not a transfer, but since he dropped out with a relatively good GPA his situation might be a bit different than yours.

Read the person's post. Says that s/he wants to transfer out of UMN. Seems like everyone is saying that a NY T-30 schools (Fordham) will not take you or that you should drop out. I really don't know how anyone would know whether Fordham would accept you unless they are working in Fordham's admission's office, which I doubt anyone is. I had a similar GPA my first semester and it was not fatal. You gotta work on your test taking skills. It is a huge waste of money, time, and effort to drop out.

I'm not going to comment on the logic of that particular statement.

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

[KidStuddi]

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

Look up sunk cost/loss aversion fallacy. You're essentially the poster child for that way of thinking in this post.

[cinephile]

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

Look up sunk cost/loss aversion fallacy. You're essentially the poster child for that way of thinking in this post.

Seriously.

So people should just take on 3x the debt only to end up in the exact same situation - unemployed and without any legal prospects?

Also, the OP should keep in mind that transferring out to avoid his/her poor GPA won't work. Hiring occurs before 2L, so they're still going to look at your 1L grades from UMN.

[venzhlev]

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

Look up sunk cost and and loss aversion fallacy. You're essentially the poster child for that way of thinking in this post.

I majored in philosophy and know what those are, thanks. Putting theory aside, the person goes to UMN and will not put the GPA or rank on his/her resume, just like the rest of the 30 ppl or so in UMN who have a sub 3 GPA. I am pretty sure that UMN grads with a sub-3 GPA still become attorneys. But mind the qualification in my previous post.

[cinephile]

I am pretty sure that UMN grads with a sub-3 GPA still become attorneys.

Lol. You don't know anything about the legal market, do you?

[JDcandidate]

OP, "fit" really should not be a consideration in terms of whether a certain professional school is the place for you. It's 3 years geared towards delivering you a specific outcome, not a unique sort of academic undergoing. And in all honesty, it probably won't make that much of a positive difference for you professionally transferring to any similar school that you think is a better "fit." Sure, culture in undergrad may make a difference if you care about that, but law school is a different beast.

You know what you have to do. Pull your shit together, pack it in, and make it happen. That, or drop out. Cowering away from your situation on some theory of the school not being a good "fit" is - respectfully - a load of shit. Especially 1L year. The course-load across the country is generally the same. And class personalities are generally stratified from those who don't care to those who get colitis from caring too much regardless of where you are. Stop making excuses for yourself and face the facts. The boards here aren't going to give you some affirmation you optimistically hopped on here seeking. Good luck, regardless of your decision.

[KidStuddi]

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

Look up sunk cost and and loss aversion fallacy. You're essentially the poster child for that way of thinking in this post.

I majored in philosophy and know what those are, thanks. Putting theory aside, the person goes to UMN and will not put the GPA or rank on his/her resume, just like the rest of the 30 ppl or so in UMN who have a sub 3 GPA. I am pretty sure that UMN grads with a sub-3 GPA still become attorneys. But mind the qualification in my previous post.

Sunk cost is an economic term as is the eponymous fallacy associated with those who misunderstand it; why would majoring in philosophy make you aware and conversant on the matter? Clearly it didn't. The sunk cost fallacy occurs when you try and bring irrelevant matters (i.e. the money previously spent pursuing a goal) into the arguments for why one should continue pursuing the goal.

The portion of your argument I and other posters took issue with was where you insinuated OP should keep going because he's already spent money and time. That is the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy. If you argued that 2 years of tuition for a chance at being a lawyer is better than dropping out without any preexisting prospects, you would still be stupid, but at least you would not have committed the fallacy.

[a11 1n]

Dropping out means that your time and effort that you have put in your first year/semester are gone. Further, you are still responsible for the loans you have taken. This is especially so, if one intends to go back to law school and start over. What's illogical here?
The only thing I would qualify is that if a person has other prospects of good non-legal jobs, then dropping out would possibly be worth the waste.

Look up sunk cost and and loss aversion fallacy. You're essentially the poster child for that way of thinking in this post.

I majored in philosophy and know what those are, thanks. Putting theory aside, the person goes to UMN and will not put the GPA or rank on his/her resume, just like the rest of the 30 ppl or so in UMN who have a sub 3 GPA. I am pretty sure that UMN grads with a sub-3 GPA still become attorneys. But mind the qualification in my previous post.

Sunk cost is an economic term as is the eponymous fallacy associated with those who misunderstand it; why would majoring in philosophy make you aware and conversant on the matter? Clearly it didn't. The sunk cost fallacy occurs when you try and bring irrelevant matters (i.e. the money previously spent pursuing a goal) into the arguments for why one should continue pursuing the goal.

The portion of your argument I and other posters took issue with was where you insinuated OP should keep going because he's already spent money and time. That is the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy. If you argued that 2 years of tuition for a chance at being a lawyer is better than dropping out without any preexisting prospects, you would still be stupid, but at least you would not have committed the fallacy.

Guys I think you are misunderstanding him. He means he wasted 100k getting a philosophy degree, so he has first hand experience with actually pissing money away, not that he actually understands behavioral economics.

Seriously though, haven't you heard the old adage "don't throw good money after bad" ?

OP, if your money for this semester has already disbursed then you are in a pretty precarious position. Whether you stay should hinge on how large of a scholarship you have, and whether you will be keeping it after this performance. Do not tie yourself to some idea that you will land a 160k job to pay those loans away because that is out of the question at this point. What is UMN's IBR program like? That should be an important consideration as well.

[stillwater]

why are philosophy majors always so thick? See LexLeon and PhilosopherKing

[09042014]

why are philosophy majors always so thick? See LexLeon and PhilosopherKing

They think they are hot shit and more intelligent than everyone else. Which causes them to refuse to consider anything that doesn't fit into their view.

[theteamteamteam]

OP. PM me.

[Lasers]

So I'm 100% sure I want to transfer out of the University of Minnesota Law School (a T-20 school). Not only is it not the right fit for me, I really messed up first semester. I have a 2.45 gpa. Am I stuck at UMN or can I transfer out to another school in the T-30? I'm hoping to re-locate to NY.

2.45? what's the median at minnesota?

[ndirish2010]

Drop out.

[deadpoetnsp]

I'm a 2L at UMN.

For the class of 2014, the median is 3.292 (quartile information here: http://www.law.umn.edu/uploads/0b/cc/0b ... 1-2012.pdf)

The median has consistently dropped, from 3.489 for the class of 2012, to 3.407 for the class of 2013, to 3.292 for the class of 2014.

I'm not sure what OP means by saying that UMN is a bad fit. As far as I can tell, the professors at UMN run the gamut just like at any other law school. Based on my interactions with transferees from multiple other law schools, UMN law is more or less similar to other law schools where teaching itself is concerned.

I can empathize with OP since I had piss-poor grades in the first semester. But I would like to assure OP that it is definitely possible to improve grades. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.