Top 10%, Big Law, and Transfers Forum

[eastcoast_iub]

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[PlessFightsFire]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that firms would look at their GPA criteria for your previous school so it would have little impact on OCI.

[eastcoast_iub]

what would have little impact on OCI? transferring?

[Sauer Grapes]

Northwestern is a pure lottery system for OCI. You'll get interviews and would get them even if you had a 2.0.

Callbacks are a different story. Firms usually judge you by their cutoffs at your old school. The official cutoff is rarely the real cutoff though.

[eastcoast_iub]

Northwestern is a pure lottery system for OCI. You'll get interviews and would get them even if you had a 2.0.

Callbacks are a different story. Firms usually judge you by their cutoffs at your old school. The official cutoff is rarely the real cutoff though.

I really don't know what do. Can you elaborate on the "real cutoff" point? Also, am I right to assume that the cutoff for most firms at a school in IU's range would be top 10%? Or am I going to have a shot at callbacks being in top 12%?

As stated, I have substantial W/E and an MBA, for whatever that's worth at OCI.

[Sauer Grapes]

What I mean by real cutoff is that firms usually advertise a cutoff in simplicity that is higher than what they are truly willing to hire. They do this, I'm guessing, to look more selective and prestigious. How much higher will vary by firm.

[Law Sauce]

Firms will judge you by your current school + rank regardless of if you transfer or not, some firms will have strict cut-offs, but others will consider other factors. The advantage of transferring will be that you get to have interviews with more firms than you would have due to the lottery system. I think that many firms would see that you have top grades and relevant work experience (MBA) and if they like you, give you a chance to show them that you are a good choice for their firm. If you don't transfer, you would likely have the same chances, but if will be harder to get in front of them if they do not come to OCI.

[eastcoast_iub]

Firms will judge you by your current school + rank regardless of if you transfer or not, some firms will have strict cut-offs, but others will consider other factors. The advantage of transferring will be that you get to have interviews with more firms than you would have due to the lottery system. I think that many firms would see that you have top grades and relevant work experience (MBA) and if they like you, give you a chance to show them that you are a good choice for their firm. If you don't transfer, you would likely have the same chances, but if will be harder to get in front of them if they do not come to OCI.

Good post...I'm just trying to decide whether the extra debt that I will incur is worth it (I'm on $40k per scholly). Especially since my target market is DC or NY. I know their employment stats are great though, so I'm conflicted.

Do you think it is worth it?

[Law Sauce]

Firms will judge you by your current school + rank regardless of if you transfer or not, some firms will have strict cut-offs, but others will consider other factors. The advantage of transferring will be that you get to have interviews with more firms than you would have due to the lottery system. I think that many firms would see that you have top grades and relevant work experience (MBA) and if they like you, give you a chance to show them that you are a good choice for their firm. If you don't transfer, you would likely have the same chances, but if will be harder to get in front of them if they do not come to OCI.

Good post...I'm just trying to decide whether the extra debt that I will incur is worth it (I'm on $40k per scholly). Especially since my target market is DC or NY. I know their employment stats are great though, so I'm conflicted.

Do you think it is worth it?

Personally, probably not (maybe if you can land one of yshcc, which is probably unlikely, not sure). Why Northwestern if you are targeting NYC or DC? Firms will see it as a move to solidify yourself in chicago, it may raise eyebrows elsewhere. Also DC is so competitive, there are far less SA positions than NYC and the top of the entire T14 is trying to go there. If I were you, I wouldn't put too much weight on getting that. Instead, I'd probably mass mail every NYC firm that has a decent class size and tell them that you will be in the city the week of x and try to get interviews that way. You should definitely do more than OCI if you do stay.

Edit: I am not the Xfering expert around here though. Others who have done it may be able to better answer.

[eastcoast_iub]

Agreed that it is a bit illogical to go to Chicago to get to NY or DC. But consider that I'm already in the Midwest and that Northwestern places like 22% of their class in NY and another 10 in DC.

Plus, I am born and raised in mid-Atlantic and am working in DC this summer. Plus my SO lives here. So If I say that I transferred to get Big Law, I think employers would understand that and recognize where my true ties are. Does that make sense?

[aca0260]

Your scholarship is significant to the point that I lean on staying + mass mail.

[concurrent fork]

Firms will judge you by your current school + rank regardless of if you transfer or not

This isn't really true. It varies by firm. At least one hiring partner has told me they view transfers as median students at the new school.

But I agree that top 10% T25 --> NW generally isn't worth it. CCN or bust.

[eastcoast_iub]

Firms will judge you by your current school + rank regardless of if you transfer or not

This isn't really true. It varies by firm. At least one hiring partner has told me they view transfers as median students at the new school.

But I agree that top 10% T25 --> NW generally isn't worth it. CCN or bust.

I don't understand the ambivalence about NW, they were #2 in NLJ250 placement last year with over 50% of the class. Plus, I would think that my substantive W/E would make NW a good fit, as recruiters who are looking for people with that profile would gravitate to them. What am I missing here?

This decision is so tough, I have talked to some people saying Michigan and NW are definitely worth it b/c of my old school's awful Big Law placement. Others say T10 or bust, others say T6 or bust...People make such fine distinctions on here between CCN and MVP and then DNCG, but are these categories really meaningful to employers? Or are people over-obsessing about 1 or 2 spots in the rankings on here?

[concurrent fork]

The categories are meaningful for transfers. Nearly all transfers into HYSCCN get biglaw -- so you take very little risk transferring there even if you leave behind a scholarship. Beyond T6, whether transferring increases your chances of biglaw varies by individual circumstances. Maybe it would increase your chances, since you fit the NW profile and your current school has below average placement. But is the increase worth an additional $120K in debt? I'm not sure. There's a risk you could still strike out and graduate much poorer.

[eastcoast_iub]

The categories are meaningful for transfers. Nearly all transfers into HYSCCN get biglaw -- so you take very little risk transferring there even if you leave behind a scholarship. Beyond T6, whether transferring increases your chances of biglaw varies by individual circumstances. Maybe it would increase your chances, since you fit the NW profile and your current school has below average placement. But is the increase worth an additional $120K in debt? I'm not sure. There's a risk you could still strike out and graduate much poorer.

It's definitely a risk I'm worried about. I would go ahead and lump Penn in with HYSCCN, I would 100% jump if accepted there. But still wondering why NW is considered in such a different league given last year's placement numbers.

The increase in debt would be closer to $90k or so with COLA, since I'm on $40k/year right now. Still a substantial amount of money. It's really a tough call.

I wish I could get more concrete information about how firms judge xfers with respect to the cutoffs from the prior schools. I'm sure being outside top 10% will screw me at some places.

[3L Student]

Add Boalt to that list. 90+ percent of the transfers landed Big Law (many V20 or better...)

[Should I Transfer??]

Completely anecdotal, but I have heard great things about Michigan's transfer placement. I've heard less positive things about transfer results for NU transfers, but this could be because NU seems less selective in who they accept as transfers.

I think you are wise to think about these things now, but obviously you don't yet have acceptances in hand. I don't know if you have applied to these schools yet, but obviously go ahead and apply to all the schools you potentially would attend.