The social impact of Transfering Forum

[jarofsoup]

I am considering transferring law schools. I was wondering if people can chime in with information on how hard it was for you to adapt to the new environment and if you had any advice to make the transition to a new city and a new school easier.

I have heard to join a club immediately and try to get involved that way.

[keg411]

I am considering transferring law schools. I was wondering if people can chime in with information on how hard it was for you to adapt to the new environment and if you had any advice to make the transition to a new city and a new school easier.

I have heard to join a club immediately and try to get involved that way.

I'll bite on this -- transferring CAN have a social impact. But it's also dependent on a bunch of other factors:

1) Are you transferring closer/further away from home? If you're going closer to home or somewhere you are familiar with, the impact will likely be minimal (a lot of people transfer to their undergrad school or their home state and know people -- which makes the impact non-existent). If you're going somewhere you've never been before, there may be an adjustment.

2) How big is your transfer class? Most of the time the transfers stick together and a bigger class can be helpful (although it could hurt if you're the type that is easily left out -- seriously, be social with your transfer class as much as possible, unless you already have friends at your transfer school or in the same area as your transfer school).

3) How social are you in general? If you make friends easily and never have problems, then you should be fine. If you're not the most social person in the world, it may be more difficult -- especially when most of the 2L class will already be close from 1L year. Getting on exec boards of clubs can definitely be helpful, but keep in mind that some clubs are more social outside of school then others.

4) What are your 1L friends doing? If you made a bunch of close friends 1L year, what are your friends doing? If most plan to transfer, then you may be better off doing that. If most are staying put, then it may be a factor towards staying -- but only if you fall into the category of the type that has more difficulty making close friends.

[Reprisal]

Fit is the most important factor.

If you transferred into a school that represents a serious upjump over your maturity, personability, or intelligence level, you'll feel like a fish out of water.

But if you got screwed 0L because of a low GPA or a miserable LSAT score despite your capacity for genius, then transferring will invigorate you.

People can just tell how smart you are and how you fit in. If the transfer school is a better fit, you'll enjoy better social relations as well. If not, then find people you get along with and ignore the haters. You'll be getting the same degree they do.

[flcath]

Fit is the most important factor.

If you transferred into a school that represents a serious upjump over your maturity, personability, or intelligence level, you'll feel like a fish out of water.

But if you got screwed 0L because of a low GPA or a miserable LSAT score despite your capacity for genius, then transferring will invigorate you.

People can just tell how smart you are and how you fit in. If the transfer school is a better fit, you'll enjoy better social relations as well. If not, then find people you get along with and ignore the haters. You'll be getting the same degree they do.

Do people--as in people in the real world--really think this way? I can't imagine looking down on a transfer because they're a transfer, and I don't think it would occur to any of my peers to do it either.

I will say there appears to a social separation from the rest of the class (though the transfers are often close to each other) that persists at least through 2L.

[keg411]

Fit is the most important factor.

If you transferred into a school that represents a serious upjump over your maturity, personability, or intelligence level, you'll feel like a fish out of water.

But if you got screwed 0L because of a low GPA or a miserable LSAT score despite your capacity for genius, then transferring will invigorate you.

People can just tell how smart you are and how you fit in. If the transfer school is a better fit, you'll enjoy better social relations as well. If not, then find people you get along with and ignore the haters. You'll be getting the same degree they do.

Do people--as in people in the real world--really think this way? I can't imagine looking down on a transfer because they're a transfer, and I don't think it would occur to any of my peers to do it either.

I will say there appears to a social separation from the rest of the class (though the transfers are often close to each other) that persists at least through 2L.

The social separation is because people get super close during 1L, law school is clique-y, and it can be hard to break into pre-formed cliques. It has nothing to do with the other stuff. Also, LOL at "personability" and "maturity" being higher at better schools. Just LOL.

[jarofsoup]

I have heard (mostly anecdotal) that usually when you transfer to another school the work is really not much more harder to grasp. Granted a more steep curve but most people do well because of work ethic not raw intelligence.

That being said I am hoping to transfer back to the area around my home to make it easier. The problem is that the two schools there in the Top 14... Berkeley and Stanford are very hard to get into as a transfer.

[vanwinkle]

I'll bite on this -- transferring CAN have a social impact. But it's also dependent on a bunch of other factors:

1) Are you transferring closer/further away from home? If you're going closer to home or somewhere you are familiar with, the impact will likely be minimal (a lot of people transfer to their undergrad school or their home state and know people -- which makes the impact non-existent). If you're going somewhere you've never been before, there may be an adjustment.

2) How big is your transfer class? Most of the time the transfers stick together and a bigger class can be helpful (although it could hurt if you're the type that is easily left out -- seriously, be social with your transfer class as much as possible, unless you already have friends at your transfer school or in the same area as your transfer school).

3) How social are you in general? If you make friends easily and never have problems, then you should be fine. If you're not the most social person in the world, it may be more difficult -- especially when most of the 2L class will already be close from 1L year. Getting on exec boards of clubs can definitely be helpful, but keep in mind that some clubs are more social outside of school then others.

4) What are your 1L friends doing? If you made a bunch of close friends 1L year, what are your friends doing? If most plan to transfer, then you may be better off doing that. If most are staying put, then it may be a factor towards staying -- but only if you fall into the category of the type that has more difficulty making close friends.

2 and 3 are valid points.

If you're fortunate your new school will organize events for you to socialize with your fellow transfers early so you can get to know them right away. They're going to be your best friends because they're going to go through the next two years the same way you will, learning the school while doing OCI, not having a 1L section, trying to play catch-up in terms of involvement in student orgs, etc. Then "transfers" becomes your section over time.

[keg411]

vanwinkle, I transferred and think #1 and #4 are plenty valid. Especially the transferring away/closer to home.

[vanwinkle]

vanwinkle, I transferred and think #1 and #4 are plenty valid. Especially the transferring away/closer to home.

I think #1 is self-evident in its actual effects (Moving to a new city? Yes, that will have a social impact) and otherwise has nothing to do with transferring. You're adjusting to a new school and a new bunch of classmates either way, and that's the same kind of experience no matter where you transfer.

#4 is incredibly terrible thinking. Try to transfer because your friends are too? Even if it makes sense for them it may not make sense for you, and what are you going to do, try to follow them all? How would you know if any of them had an actual chance of transferring if they wanted? Even worse, when ever does it make sense to stay just because your friends aren't coming with you? Law school is a professional career builder, and while the social aspects are at least worth considering, how transferring/not transferring affects your future employment vastly outweighs what your friends are planning on doing.

And, of course, if they pull any surprises on you, you're stuck. If you decided to stay because you like your friends, and then a couple suddenly announce "I got into X!" and bail, it's too late for you to do anything. You missed the cycle, you're stuck where you are, to regret not trying when you wanted to.

[keg411]

vanwinkle, I transferred and think #1 and #4 are plenty valid. Especially the transferring away/closer to home.

I think #1 is self-evident in its actual effects (Moving to a new city? Yes, that will have a social impact) and otherwise has nothing to do with transferring. You're adjusting to a new school and a new bunch of classmates either way, and that's the same kind of experience no matter where you transfer.

#4 is incredibly terrible thinking. Try to transfer because your friends are too? Even if it makes sense for them it may not make sense for you, and what are you going to do, try to follow them all? How would you know if any of them had an actual chance of transferring if they wanted? Even worse, when ever does it make sense to stay just because your friends aren't coming with you? Law school is a professional career builder, and while the social aspects are at least worth considering, how transferring/not transferring affects your future employment vastly outweighs what your friends are planning on doing.

And, of course, if they pull any surprises on you, you're stuck. If you decided to stay because you like your friends, and then a couple suddenly announce "I got into X!" and bail, it's too late for you to do anything. You missed the cycle, you're stuck where you are, to regret not trying when you wanted to.

I didn't mean transfer to the same school as your friends, and I'm also talking about people that you are *super* close with who wouldn't pull the stuff you're talking about. I also mean that it might give you a better reason to leave if you were already thinking about leaving. It's just something to consider and shouldn't be dispositive; especially if the people aren't your BFF's.

Also, if you transfer close to home or somewhere you already know it *isn't* an all new experience because you will already have a social structure in place, as opposed to transferring to a place you've never lived/been before. A good portion of people start at law school at "home" and transfer "away" or vice versa and it really does make a difference.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: The best club to join is law review. Instant group with whom you identify, but no time to socialize.

Michigan transfers report no problems.

OP: To which law schools are you applying as a transfer applicant ?

[flcath]

OP: The best club to join is law review.

Probably a good idea. Call them within your first couple weeks and sign up.

[jarofsoup]

OP: The best club to join is law review. Instant group with whom you identify, but no time to socialize.

Michigan transfers report no problems.

OP: To which law schools are you applying as a transfer applicant ?

UCLA, USC(a bunch of my friends from my current school are transferring here), GULC, GWU(in already), and Northwestern...not getting in. I got sorta median owned second semester, but my first semester grades kept me in the top 15% of my class at a high tier 2 in Socal. My A-'s turned into B+'s

[Reprisal]

Do people--as in people in the real world--really think this way? I can't imagine looking down on a transfer because they're a transfer, and I don't think it would occur to any of my peers to do it either.

Well, they do. "Oh, you're a transfer.." Slight tail off of tone, not necessarily dismissive but certainly diminutive.

Also, LOL at "personability" and "maturity" being higher at better schools. Just LOL.

I've attended the top and bottom of public and private universities and the difference is obvious. Maturity goes hand in hand with self awareness, intelligence, and empathy, and people with higher levels of the above consistently go to different schools than their counterparts.

[BattleBuddy]

I've attended the top and bottom of public and private universities and the difference is obvious. Maturity goes hand in hand with self awareness, intelligence, and empathy, and people with higher levels of the above consistently go to different schools than their counterparts.

Give me a break. Well my limited experience of 29 years says otherwise.

[vanwinkle]

I've attended the top and bottom of public and private universities and the difference is obvious. Maturity goes hand in hand with self awareness, intelligence, and empathy, and people with higher levels of the above consistently go to different schools than their counterparts.

I've attended a wide range of schools from local community college to the Ivy League. Anyone who thinks that "maturity" and "intelligence" go hand-in-hand is either sheltered or delusional. You'll find broad ranges of maturity, empathy, and self-awareness at any school you attend, I guarantee you.

In the law school realm, what separates schools is largely the student body's average GPA and LSAT. Very top schools, which have the flexibility to be choosy, are starting to look for applicants with work experience, which does reflect maturity at least a little bit more accurately than pure academic numbers. This makes attending such schools a little less like undergrad, because there will be at least a subculture of those with solid work ethics within the school, but otherwise law schools are full of people fresh from undergrad who just keep behaving the same as they did the last four years.

That might be an additional reason for slightly older students with more WE to transfer, actually, if they're jumping from a lower-ranked school up into the T10. You might be around a slightly older student body at your new school.

[keg411]

I found neither of those to be true. There were just as many K-JD's at both my old T2 and my T10 and the average age of the student body was likely the same at both schools. Additionally, the transfers with WE and transfers without WE were probably proportional to the schools at large. I've also seen just as much immaturity at both schools and less self-awareness overall at the T10. The only really difference is that the immaturity manifests itself in different ways (at the T2 it's people treating law school as an extension of undergrad; at the T10 it's being hyper-intellectual and pretentious).

[09042014]

IMO the type of person who transfers is a weirdo with little to no friends already. Won't have friends at the old school, won't have friends at the new one.

Though, I'm friends with one transfer who is cool.

[jarofsoup]

IMO the type of person who transfers is a weirdo with little to no friends already. Won't have friends at the old school, won't have friends at the new one.

Though, I'm friends with one transfer who is cool.

I have a lot of friends at my old school makes it hard to leave, but I also want a job.

[Reprisal]

edit

[09042014]

IMO the type of person who transfers is a weirdo with little to no friends already. Won't have friends at the old school, won't have friends at the new one.

Though, I'm friends with one transfer who is cool.

I have a lot of friends at my old school makes it hard to leave, but I also want a job.

Well, if you have the grades to transfer, what is the problem?