What rank needed to transfer MVPB --> CCN? Forum

[rickfox]

Top 20%?

[crazyblink653]

to be quite honest, if you have a rank high enough to make you consider transferring to CCN, you're probably in a great position to land a job out of MVPB anyway. What is your reason to want to trade up such a marginal amount in the rankings? absent some family or SO situation, i can't really think of a good enough reason.

[Transferthrowaway]

I know a MVP to CCN who did it with top 25-30% (I think?)

Edit: For personal reasons

[Grizz]

to be quite honest, if you have a rank high enough to make you consider transferring to CCN, you're probably in a great position to land a job out of MVPB anyway. What is your reason to want to trade up such a marginal amount in the rankings? absent some family or SO situation, i can't really think of a good enough reason.

Pretty much this. You'll lose your GPA and the connections you made at your old school, and you're gonna have some awkward questions to answer during OCI.

[rickfox]

OCI answers would be the truth: better access to top NYC firms. I mean each of the v10 takes a dozen or so CLS/NYU kids but only a few at U of M for instance. Also, I saw on the TLS OCI thread that many CCN transfers were cleaning up the v10 offers.

[showNprove]

There is absolutely zero sense in transferring from MVPB to CCN, except for personal reasons (e.g., spouse is in New York City). Absent personal reasons, if you're at MVPB, the only justified transfers are (1) to Y if you're interested in clerking and/or academia; and (2) to HYS if you missed out on Law Review.

[5ky]

There is absolutely zero sense in transferring from MVPB to CCN, except for personal reasons (e.g., spouse is in New York City). Absent personal reasons, if you're at MVPB, the only justified transfers are (1) to Y if you're interested in clerking and/or academia; and (2) to HYS if you missed out on Law Review.

I agree with this.

[quiver]

There is absolutely zero sense in transferring from MVPB to CCN, except for personal reasons (e.g., spouse is in New York City). Absent personal reasons, if you're at MVPB, the only justified transfers are (1) to Y if you're interested in clerking and/or academia; and (2) to HYS if you missed out on Law Review.

I agree with this.

Me too.

[koalatriste]

to be quite honest, if you have a rank high enough to make you consider transferring to CCN, you're probably in a great position to land a job out of MVPB anyway. What is your reason to want to trade up such a marginal amount in the rankings? absent some family or SO situation, i can't really think of a good enough reason.

Pretty much this. You'll lose your GPA and the connections you made at your old school, and you're gonna have some awkward questions to answer during OCI.

this is not necessarily true. it's not awkward to transfer if you have transferred to your target market. I can see some awkwardness if you transfer from, say, Virginia to Chicago and are interviewing for DC (maybe even NYC?). But no one is going to question a move from Berkeley to Columbia if you're interviewing in NYC, but, indeed, you can basically cross off Bay Area firms from your list.

speaking from my experience as a DCN to CN transfer, your OCI strategy is different than someone who transferred from, say, a mid-T1 to CCN. when you're transferring from a really good school to another really good school (albeit an even better school, at least according to US news), it's not really about the increased opportunities/access to firms. For me, the transfer was about where I wanted to be long-term and where, location-wise, I was going to have the most success in my final two years of law school. For a lot of reasons, that location was NYC and this was extremely easy to sell in interviews (i.e., I transferred from DCN to CN because I want to be in NYC long-term and needed to be here in the short-term).

I think this even works if your old school's primary market is the same as your new school's. For example, I can definitely see a Chicago firm being receptive to a Michigan to UChicago transfer student: this transfer makes sense, you are committed to Chicago and you wanted to be in the city immediately. This, however, probably isn't going to work if you jump from Northwestern to Chicago.

What is your reason to want to trade up such a marginal amount in the rankings? absent some family or SO situation, i can't really think of a good enough reason.

I also wanted to respond to this more completely. As I stated above, transferring within the T14 (even from Georgetown to Yale) really isn't about opportunities per se. It's about where you are going to be happiest for the final two years of law school. If Charlottesville isn't your thing and you think you'd function much better in the Village, making the switch to NYU makes sense from a QOL perspective and it definitely can make sense from a job perspective (I think that a UVa to NYU transfer is a bit of an obstacle if you're targeting DC, but I think it's actually an advantage if you're targeting NYC - maybe it's a bit more of a wildcard if you're targeting LA?).

[koalatriste]

There is absolutely zero sense in transferring from MVPB to CCN, except for personal reasons (e.g., spouse is in New York City). Absent personal reasons, if you're at MVPB, the only justified transfers are (1) to Y if you're interested in clerking and/or academia; and (2) to HYS if you missed out on Law Review.

I agree with this.

Me too.

I largely agree with this (but personal reasons are a totally legitimate transfer reason), with the exception of the idea that I developed in my previous post: transferring in to your target market can show a commitment to that market and I think it provides at least a marginal boost (and my experience at OCI validates this - I vastly outperformed my GPA peers from my old school but only in my target market). I'm also extremely good-looking and an exceptional interviewer (with great WE and language skills), so I did have those advantages - i.e. the comparison 1 to 1 with my old school probably isn't totally fair.

[Grizz]

I'm also extremely good-looking

LOL and modest, too.

[rickfox]

"i'm extremely good looking."

lol. you on that p90x kick, bro?

[vanwinkle]

There is absolutely zero sense in transferring from MVPB to CCN, except for personal reasons (e.g., spouse is in New York City). Absent personal reasons, if you're at MVPB, the only justified transfers are (1) to Y if you're interested in clerking and/or academia; and (2) to HYS if you missed out on Law Review.

I agree with this.

Me too.

[rayiner]

OCI answers would be the truth: better access to top NYC firms. I mean each of the v10 takes a dozen or so CLS/NYU kids but only a few at U of M for instance. Also, I saw on the TLS OCI thread that many CCN transfers were cleaning up the v10 offers.

The V10 all interview at MVP. They'll apply their usual MVP cut-offs to your MVP 1L GPA.

[rickfox]

rainyner- are you sure? I thought you'd be evaluated with softer cut offs for CN, thus giving a tangible boost in the v10. I mean it's counterfactual, but you would guess a person who transferred from MVPB in the top 20% and bid NYC v10 would have very close to an identical shot bidding those same firms from CCN? Even tho firms go into CN with a bigger target of how many kids they're going to hire in their minds?

[bk1]

You should also make a thread asking your chances of winning the lottery since you seem to enjoy asking stupid questions about things that are unlikely to happen.

[Renzo]

rainyner- are you sure? I thought you'd be evaluated with softer cut offs for CN, thus giving a tangible boost in the v10. I mean it's counterfactual, but you would guess a person who transferred from MVPB in the top 20% and bid NYC v10 would have very close to an identical shot bidding those same firms from CCN? Even tho firms go into CN with a bigger target of how many kids they're going to hire in their minds?

Ray's right. Every recruiter I've ever talked to says they treat transfers as if they were still at their old school, as far as GPA cutoffs.

[Sherwood2014]

I see very little upside (if any) of transferring out of MVPB unless it is to Yale or Harvard.
A transfer to Yale or Harvard would not need an explanation.

My guess is that most students at MVPB could have been accepted to CCN but bypassed living in NYC or Chicago.

I know of a 1L (T-10) classmate who just received an “out of the blue” full first year scholarship (with a smaller scholarship benefit in year 2 and 3). The one caveat to the scholarship is that if this student transferred, the worth of the scholarship would need to be reimbursed. What this stipulation does is dampen the idea of a Yale or Harvard transfer. Hard enough to get into Y/H much less asking them to pick up your 1L tab.

[bk1]

My guess is that most students at MVPB could have been accepted to CCN

I doubt "most."

[mrloblaw]

My guess is that most students at MVPB could have been accepted to CCN

I doubt "most."

Aren't most students at MVPB there because they couldn't get into CCN? And most kids at CCN there because they couldn't get into HS? And most kids at HS there because they couldn't get into Y?

It's the great chain of mediocrity.

[Sherwood2014]

Aren't most students at MVPB there because they couldn't get into CCN?

How foolish would someone feel if they transferred to CCN (just for the T-6 ranking prestige) and next year their CCN selection dropped out of the T-6 and their previous school was now T-6 ranked. That scenario happened to Berkeley, not all that long ago. It is certainly conceivable that NYU could be replaced by a school on the T-6 cusp.

[AriGoldButNicer]

Aren't most students at MVPB there because they couldn't get into CCN?

How foolish would someone feel if they transferred to CCN (just for the T-6 ranking prestige) and next year their CCN selection dropped out of the T-6 and their previous school was now T-6 ranked. That scenario happened to Berkeley, not all that long ago. It is certainly conceivable that NYU could be replaced by a school on the T-6 cusp.

It'd be dumb to transfer just for ranking. You'd need to have a serious location motivation if it's not HYS, and is a top 14. I just can't picture someone leaving Penn for Berkley just because it's higher. You'd think their friends in class would clue them in.

[shmoo597]

But no one is going to question a move from Berkeley to Columbia if you're interviewing in NYC, but, indeed, you can basically cross off Bay Area firms from your list.

Anecdotally, I know someone who transfered from boalt to nyu, and ended up summering at a firm in SV. So if you have a good reason for the transfer (he did), it doesn't really preclude you from anything.

[CanadianWolf]

The question asked by the OP is what class rank would be needed for such a move. "Personal reasons" covers a lot of territory & OP wrote that he/she wants to live & work in NYC & never indicated that such a move was simply to attend a slightly higher ranked law school. It seems clear that living in NYC while attending law school there would be a much different experience than attending Virginia, Michigan or Berkeley.
My best guess is that the lower your class rank within the top half of your current school, the more compelling & convincing your reasons for transfer need to be. To transfer to be in your target market without any other compelling reason seems to be the OP's situation as expressed thus far in this thread.

[CanadianWolf]

In my opinion, the poll needs to be adjusted to offer top quarter (25%) & top third (33%) options in addition to top 20% & top 40% since it is likely that any student ranked higher would be deemed well qualified for such a move. Plus, giving up a ranking in the top 10% from any of these schools simply to be located in one's target market--especially when that target market is NYC--would be unwise.