Top 3% at UGA to CCN? Forum

[mrloblaw]

Hey guys,

I'm currently ranked within the top 3% of my class at UGA and on law review. I'm paying in state tuition with a scholarship that brings my total CoA down to about 25k/year. I have been accepted at NYU and suspect that I will also be accepted to either Columbia or Chicago.

As for career plans, I see myself eventually ending up in academia if at all possible. Before law school, I was torn between MD/PhD, wanting to teach and do research at a medical school, or JD-> public interest/legal academia, and I eventually chose the latter. It's likely that I'll eventually pick up a PhD in something related to law, such as economics or history, and try to teach with an interdisciplinary focus. I want to clerk after graduation, and although I see myself being much happier in a public interest career than large firm practice, I'm open to both. I wouldn't begin a PhD until law school was completely paid off, making doing so as quickly as possible a priority.

If I was at just about any other Top 50 school, I think the transfer would be an easy choice. However, UGA seems to place surprisingly well in clerkships (especially SCOTUS) while having one of the lowest CoAs in the first tier. I'm also from the South and have no experience living in anything remotely like NYC, although I've always wanted to try it, if only to expand my cultural scope. I'm not terribly impressed by Atlanta, which is a negative for UGA.

Quality of life is also a big issue for me. I spent a semester of post-grad study in a city/situation I absolutely hated, and my A average for everything I've done up to and including law school dropped to a C overnight, leading me to drop out of the program and eventually end up in law school. For this reason, I'm probably not strongly considering U Chicago even if I get in, as I've heard abysmal things. I really enjoy UGA and have heard only good things about NYU.

Any thoughts?

[noxhil]

;

[de5igual]

seems like you detest atlanta, and that's where uga will most likely get you. i'd transfer to nyu if i were you. chicago doesn't seem like a fit (if being somewhere really miserable causes your grades to plummet, the marginal advantage of being at chicago for academia would be more than offset by the potential less-than-stellar gpa), and cls has more of a corporate focus than nyu, which has a stronger pi emphasis.

congrats on a great 1l year!

[scribelaw]

I'd be tempted to go to NYU for the greatly increased BigLaw prospects and NYU's strong reputation in public interest law, which seems to interest you.

Academia will be tough either way. I wouldn't transfer for this; the odds are too long.

I'm guessing you'd be giving up a little in the way of clerkship odds by transferring. UGA doesn't place many in CoA (looks like a few each year on the 11th Cir) but with your excellent grades and law review, you'd be among those with a shot. I'm guessing it'd be tougher as a transfer at NYU with no law review. Something to consider.

[scat_cat]

You have no idea if you'll dislike Chicago--the vast majority of people who actually go there like it a lot. Where were you before that you hated? If you're used to living in a smaller town or city, living in Hyde Park with access to the rest of Chicago is a good way to ease yourself in. Chicago is better for academia than either New York school; it also ends up being quite a lot cheaper due to COL. And you'll be better off for clerkships at Chicago than UGA.

[CanadianWolf]

The good news, since you don't like Atlanta, is that both Chicago & NYC are very different than Atlanta.

NYU.

[mrloblaw]

Thanks for all the great responses.

I know that U Chicago is, based on objective employment data, the best school for me to be at outside HYS. I don't have a great feel for the city (or NYC, for that matter) and have never been to Hyde Park. I will definitely tour the campus and neighborhood if accepted, but I can't imagine that I'll get a great feel for what living there would be like based on a few days on campus during summer break. Athens, GA is pretty representative of the places I'm used to living. I wouldn't plan on having a car in either NYC or Chicago, so I'd very rarely leave the vicinity of the school; even at UGA, I only leave downtown Athens a couple of times per month. From what I've heard, there is a much better selection of restaurants, entertainment, etc. within walking/short subway ride distance at NYU than just about any other T14, so quality of life seems to point to NYU. I'll know more after I visit the campus this week.

My two main concerns leaving UGA are the extra $100k price tag for two years at a T6 and the fact that, with my grades and law review, I should have any opportunities that any UGA student ever has. Since Atlanta biglaw isn't really appealing, what are the differences in other opportunities between top-of-class at UGA with law review and potentially middle-of-class at NYU with no law review? Also, with some of the comments I see on TLS, NYU seems almost as regional as a typical first-tier non-T6 school, with the school's name carrying very little weight outside NYC. Am I going to be as trapped in NYC at NYU as I would be in Atlanta finishing UGA? Or, putting it another way, is NYU clearly inferior to the other T6 schools in placement outside NYC?

Only one of you guys has mentioned Columbia at all. Is Columbia clearly a worse fit for me than NYU just because of its NYC biglaw reputation?

Thanks again.

[noxhil]

/

[Transferthrowaway]

If it helps at all, I'm top 1-2% at UGA w/ law review and I've decided to make the jump to CCN. We have surprisingly similar career goals. The primary reason I am transferring is to increase my shot at academia. I will also potentially do an econ PhD at CCN.

From the profs I've talked to about it, it's a toss up with CCN narrowly edging out staying at UGA. We've been putting like 1/year into academia because of our relatively new VAP program for UGA grads only, but it's tough and you literally have to be top of the class. Our Art. III clerkship numbers are a little skewed because of ND/MD/SD GA and we have a lot of grads who work and then go clerk. When I talked to career services, they said literally #1 and #2 can get COA, sometimes #3, but otherwise its d. ct. first. It's amazing how different first honor graduate here is treated by judges/academia from the rest of the pack.

Edit: As a footnote, I went to Hyde Park 2 weeks ago. Loved the school, the dean was the awesome, and the area is okay. I think you are overestimating how much you'll dislike Hyde Park. It definitely isn't Athens, but I went to a small college and then Athens too and I think it'll be bearable.

[CanadianWolf]

Based on your posts in this thread, none of the listed law schools seem to be a match for you. Part of the problem is that you seem unhappy everywhere. It might help knowing which city had such a negative effect on you that you withdrew & changed your plans.

Columbia hasn't been discussed primarily because you haven't been accepted yet.
Hyde Park is more dangerous than most are willing to admit. Several Chicago undergrads have been held up within a block or two of campus.
NYU is in a great area of NYC. In 2010, NYU outplaced both the much smaller Chicago & Columbia in academia.

Did you apply to Harvard as a transfer ?

[Transferthrowaway]

Based on your posts in this thread, none of the listed law schools seem to be a match for you. Part of the problem is that you seem unhappy everywhere. It might help knowing which city had such a negative effect on you that you withdrew & changed your plans.

Columbia hasn't been discussed primarily because you haven't been accepted yet.
Hyde Park is more dangerous than most are willing to admit. Several Chicago undergrads have been held up within a block or two of campus.
NYU is in a great area of NYC. In 2010, NYU outplaced both the much smaller Chicago & Columbia in academia.

Did you apply to Harvard as a transfer ?

We already have 2 people going to H. A large portion of the top of the class is transferring this year it seems.

[mrloblaw]

Based on your posts in this thread, none of the listed law schools seem to be a match for you. Part of the problem is that you seem unhappy everywhere.

I didn't mean to give that impression. I dislike Atlanta because I feel like I'm constantly dealing with all the urban sprawl and awful traffic problems of an LA without any of the really awesome benefits. My post-grad nightmare was more a problem with the school than the city. I just wanted to indicate that if Chicago was a quality of life nightmare, I'd probably be more dissuaded than the average person by it. So far, you guys have been very reassuring, however. It's definitely worth a visit if I can get in.

Hyde Park is more dangerous than most are willing to admit. Several Chicago undergrads have been held up within a block or two of campus.
NYU is in a great area of NYC. In 2010, NYU outplaced both the much smaller Chicago & Columbia in academia.

All great info. Thanks! I'm wondering if NYU's poor showing on things like Lietner's blog are primarily due to it being fairly new as an elite law school. That might seem to confirm it, if the trend continued over a couple of years.

Did you apply to Harvard as a transfer ?

Rejected by H, Y. Didn't apply to S, but in hindsight, I probably should have. I literally got my grades on the application deadline and didn't think I had a prayer at top 5% when I took my exams.

For what it's worth, I think you have a better shot at a CoA or District Court clerkship where you are right now rather than as a transfer at NYU.

That's my one worry. UGA places really well into clerkships for its ranking, but like transferthrowaway indicated, I think there might be something going on there (other than the fact that we're one of only two Tier 1 schools in the state).

And transferthrowaway, thanks for all the great info about UGA. I didn't get nearly that much out of the career services people. The VAP program is the only way I'm aware of we place anybody into academia, and while I'm doing OK, I really don't want to have to bank on being 1st or 2nd in the class.

[mrloblaw]

.

[sunynp]

If you are worried about clerkship chances after transferring, the expert on clerkships here is GTL Rev. Maybe PM him or post in his taking questions thread. I really have no advice to give you on that front. Sorry.

I gotta tell you, your description of why you hated life in Louisville makes me think you will like NYC. Just keep an open mind. Visit Columbia too, the locations of the schools are very different. But I preferred Columbia as being less hectic and next to big parks, but you can get anything you want by walking or subway.

For me, I would vote to move, but I love the city. I would always go for improved OCI placement and improved LARP.

But the deciding factor for me - it seems you are ready to get out of Georgia. IF you don't want biglaw in Atlanta, why would you stay? And, what are you hoping to go into after a clerkship, should you get one? What does your dream career path look like? I think that dream path (potentially except clerking) may not be reached at UGA.

But what do you risk by transferring?

At this point you have most of the info you need, you need to make a pro - con Excell sheet.

[Blessedassurance]

And since a couple of people have asked and I keep forgetting to answer, the school I really hated attending was U Kentucky. Lexington probably wouldn't have been bad if my memory of it wasn't marred by significant problems with the university from my first day on campus. Like Atlanta, though, it really seems too decentralized and spread-out for what the city has to offer, IMO.

Lexington, Kentucky? Apples and oranges, really.

[rapstar]

i'm at uga too, finished a little inside the top 10%. i knew from the beginning that i wanted atlanta biglaw though and that's the only reason i came here. i think this poster has it right:

If you are worried about clerkship chances after transferring, the expert on clerkships here is GTL Rev. Maybe PM him or post in his taking questions thread. I really have no advice to give you on that front. Sorry.

I gotta tell you, your description of why you hated life in Louisville makes me think you will like NYC. Just keep an open mind. Visit Columbia too, the locations of the schools are very different. But I preferred Columbia as being less hectic and next to big parks, but you can get anything you want by walking or subway.

For me, I would vote to move, but I love the city. I would always go for improved OCI placement and improved LARP.

But the deciding factor for me - it seems you are ready to get out of Georgia. IF you don't want biglaw in Atlanta, why would you stay? And, what are you hoping to go into after a clerkship, should you get one? What does your dream career path look like? I think that dream path (potentially except clerking) may not be reached at UGA.

But what do you risk by transferring?

At this point you have most of the info you need, you need to make a pro - con Excell sheet.

you just have to decide what you want to do. if it's something other than biglaw in atlanta or maybe a clerkship in ga then i think you should go to nyu.

i don't know who you are though, so if you happen to be one of my friends, then i take all this back and say that you should stay here lol

[Thomas Sutpen]

How many people are transferring out of UGA? Does this mean my ranking will go up? Does this mean I'm not going to have to work with some of the people on Law Review currently who are clearly terrible people?

[Transferthrowaway]

How many people are transferring out of UGA? Does this mean my ranking will go up? Does this mean I'm not going to have to work with some of the people on Law Review currently who are clearly terrible people?

Yes, your rank will go up.

[eandy]

The outing here is outrageous.

[TheBigMediocre]

OP I vote go to CCN.

[mebeSajid]

Does this mean my ranking will go up? Does this mean I'm not going to have to work with some of the people on Law Review currently who are clearly terrible people?

[rapstar]

How many people are transferring out of UGA? Does this mean my ranking will go up? Does this mean I'm not going to have to work with some of the people on Law Review currently who are clearly terrible people?

And boom, Thomas comes out of a year long hibernation to post this.

I too am not sure if he is serious.

Does this mean my ranking will go up? Does this mean I'm not going to have to work with some of the people on Law Review currently who are clearly terrible people?

Thomas, is this a serious post?

[Thomas Sutpen]

[whatdoyouthink]

Do it.

[mrloblaw]

I went to NYC to tour Columbia and NYU yesterday. I actually liked the feel of Morningside Heights a lot better than the Village, and Columbia has basically assumed 'dream school' status for me.

The problem is that I'm still waiting to hear from Columbia, and NYU has only given me until Aug. 1 to accept or decline their offer. If I don't receive a response from Columbia by Monday mail, how should I handle the situation?