T20 + LR to Columbia Forum

[hadokenstyle]

Hi there-
I appreciate your guys' input.

A bit about me:
-no biglaw interest
-government/public interest (specifically interested in something that rhymes with 'splinter rational claw' which Columbia is ranked #1 or 2 in)
-clerkship interest

New school plusses:
-on East coast, where I may end up
-more prestige
-closer to girlfriend who is moving to East coast (but train to where she is and flights are not horribly different price- and time- wise, so realistically we will see each other about the same amount if I go or stay)
-new environment
-more students interested in my field of law
-more renowned faculty in my field of law

Old school plusses:
-Law Review (flagship)
-position on non-flagship journal
-chairing organization devoted to the law I want to study
-awesome semester abroad program lined up for the Fall (that I would otherwise give up, and LR editors are chill about me doing)
-very close with professors here for LoRs and networking for jobs
-good grades (top 10% ish, would be higher but personal things happened)
-not on East coast, but like the area and my family is here

My initial gut is to stay. I have guaranteed success in my market, which is a competitive one. While I may want to wind up on the East coast, excelling at a school may trump not having guaranteed success at a new school. While I am curious to see a new environment, I may end up working there or can do an L.L.M. if I really want to. My opinion is that without biglaw ambitions, the rank is going to matter a heck of a lot less for me.

I lazily tried to cover up where I go, etc. but if you are sharp you can probably figure it out.

[UnitarySpace]

Hi there-
I appreciate your guys' input.

A bit about me:
-no biglaw interest
-government/public interest (specifically interested in something that rhymes with 'splinter rational claw' which Columbia is ranked #1 or 2 in)
-clerkship interest

New school plusses:
-on East coast, where I may end up
-more prestige
-closer to girlfriend who is moving to East coast (but train to where she is and flights are not horribly different price- and time- wise, so we may see each other the same amount)
-new environment
-more students interested in my field of law
-more renowned faculty in my field of law

Old school plusses:
-Law Review (flagship)
-position on non-flagship journal
-chairing organization devoted to the law I want to study
-awesome semester abroad program lined up for the Fall
-very close with professors here for LoRs and networking for jobs
-good grades
-not on East coast, but like the area and my family is here

My initial gut is to stay. I have guaranteed success in my market, which is a competitive one. While I may want to wind up on the East coast, excelling at a school may trump not having guaranteed success at a new school. While I am curious to see a new environment, I may end up working there or can do an L.L.M. if I really want to. My opinion is that without biglaw ambitions, the rank is going to matter a heck of a lot less for me.

I lazily tried to cover up where I go, etc. but if you are sharp you can probably figure it out.

I think transfers may be eligible to go abroad during 3L year here at CLS.

[hadokenstyle]

I suppose the big question is how much is guaranteed LR worth compared to not being able to write-on until 3rd year and be a staff editor for one year (presuming they let you do that).

[hadokenstyle]

Sorry for the double post.

A lot of people have voted, and I appreciate your input. I wonder if anybody has any comments that make them lean one way or the other.

I really think my current school's big plus is Law Review. Other things (like study abroad) can be done elsewhere as mentioned.

However, I would not have LR guaranteed. The question is if the specific faculty, Columbia name, and added mobility would trump any gains from having LR on my resume.

It's a difference between "oh, this person went to a T20 - whoa, LAW REVIEW!" as opposed to "wow, this person went to COLUMBIA!"

[plaintiff-appellee]

Hey, hadokenstyle. Did you decide what to do? I am in a (somewhat) similar position. T30 w/ LR vs. NYU. My school places well in this region, but I am primarily interested in international business law. Unfortunately, I am afraid that my T30 degree may not travel well. Your T20 school may be different. Nevertheless, I am leaning towards staying, mainly because going to NYU would increase my final debt from about $100K to $200K.

I am still waiting to hear from Columbia and Harvard.

Any other thoughts to share?

[hadokenstyle]

If it's T30, I would almost say go to NYU. But the money is a factor. You could always eat ramen for a year. Does your school have programs for IBL?

[plaintiff-appellee]

Unfortunately, even on ramen I would still owe $200K in two years. My school has some IBL classes. I am more concerned with placement out of school and longterm career prospects than with the curriculum.

[Rule11]

For public international law, school name/prestige can often matter much more than law review (or even, in many cases, grades). If the price is the same, you should definitely transfer. Your prospects for firm jobs (should the international thing not work out, a distinct possibility) will be comparable in either place.

[hadokenstyle]

I'm really interested in your reply, Rule11. Though you did not sign it (sorry, I had to).

I am curious where you drew that observation on school name/prestige and public international law.

I might add I think I am interested in doing stuff related to China/Japan/Asia.

[hadokenstyle]

Sorry for the bump, some more info.

Can't do LR at CLS - you can transfer in as a 3L but they take like a couple people and it's note-based.
Clinics are out 2L (3L preference) so no study abroad. But study abroad may not help much.

Ahhhhhh.... >_>

[TransferRisk]

Similar situation. T30, T 6-9%, but no journal. I'll graduate with ~140k total education (undergraduate and law) at my current school, or with a total of ~200k at C or N.

I'm seriously torn 50/50. Swinging back and forth.

[ndirish2010]

With no LR, I'd transfer to C or N.

[flexityflex86]

If it's T30, I would almost say go to NYU. But the money is a factor. You could always eat ramen for a year. Does your school have programs for IBL?

NYC does have 99 cent slices, which while unhealthy is healthier than Ramen.

In all seriousness, food over a year is such a minor cost compared to these scholarships.

[habeas__corpus]

I voted for Columbia.
I know you're hung up over Law Review, but if you have no interest in biglaw it really shouldn't matter much whether or not you were on the main review. You can always participate in a journal if you want. I know Columbia has a ton of them. Your experience matters most and you'll have more opportunities being in NYC. And no, I doubt that study abroad gets you much.

FWIW, I'm giving up LR and my top 1% grades at my T20 to attend HLS, where I will not be on Law Review. In the end, HLS has a much better international law program than my old school, has a bigger reputation that opens more doors, and the name itself will go farther than Law Review ever could. Columbia is a top school in a top market and will similarly give you much greater opportunities.

[hadokenstyle]

Thanks for your feedback. I agree, and here is my rationale after some thought:

The main plus for Law Review is leverage for biglaw, as well as academia and clerkships.

That said, the first category is out for me.

Law Review is prestigious, but also very time consuming. Moreover, I hear that Law Review gives you back what you put in. Law Review can automatically pay off to some extent, but that is only the beginning. Maximizing the benefits can involve working very hard to land a nice editor position.

To that extent, I think a secondary journal devoted to my field may give a lot of the same perks without the potential drawbacks of increased time and being absorbed in articles that are outside my field of interest. Also, if I (hypothetically) wrote a stellar article and got published, that could provide a lot of mileage for potential academia or clerkships. Ultimately, judges and academic hiring committees are concerned with the quality of one's writing and scholarship, and the best demonstration of that is publication. There are also fellowship opportunities and judicial externships that can give a boost to these opportunities.

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