Accepted in T1 from T3--thoughts Forum

[thepanda00]

Hi all,

Finished top 12 percent from a T3. Have been accepted to Wash U (I am originally from there). Had good personal statement and very good letters of rec. I am about 99 percent sure because both teachers loved me and continued to ask if I was accepted, and are now facebook friends... and I was not the one that sent the invites lol! I really got to know both of them over the semester, got drinks with one of them, and talked a lot of sports with both of them.

Anyway, I was wondering (a) is it worth it to transfer from a T3 to a T1 and give up half ride scholarship and law review? Especially if you are transferring into the top 20. Also, I would prefer to stay in the city I am at, but would be able to work in St. Louis.

(B) Honestly, how much better are the job prospects (and you can guesstimate for the year 2013) for a top 20 grad compared to a top 10 percent grad at T3. I have done some of my own research but would like others opinions. If the difference was lets say 15k starting salary, I would much rather stay with the scholarship and current city I live in. Only reason I bring that number up is because I feel nobody is making over 100k regardless of whether you go to t20 if you don't land in the top 3rd of class. I am also trying to be realistic and am assuming I will not be top 1/3 in class even though I know it is possible.

Thanks guys. Sorry for the errors above--went through it as quick as I could on an iphone in the car.

[tourdeforcex]

for a) my vote would be to stay. you've demonstrated success, built a foundation, made LR, from this we can project continued success in your next 2 years. plus you have a half ride.

i don't have an answer for b) but 15K difference i too would value the scholly and city more also.

[superflush]

You're at a T3 that isn't in St. Louis, but you got into WUSTL ... what city do you want to be in?

[Corwin]

This question basically comes down to your confidence that you will be able to secure a job in the place you want from your current school. If so, it could make sense for you to stay there. Otherwise you could transfer. In any case, perhaps you can use the acceptance to negotiate for more money from your current school.

[lovelaw27]

Where you deferred ea? If so did you cumulative GPA go up, down or stay the same this semester?

[thepanda00]

Accepted EA. First grade A+. Assuming it will be right around same this semester. Anyway, STL is where family is. I would save money by living at home so the scholarship wouldn't be as big a difference when everything is calculated. I have attempted with no luck to negotiate scholarship.

[Gideon Strumpet]

You won't get a scholarship as a transfer. If you want to work in St. Louis, you'll do better there coming from WUSTL than from whatever T3 you're at now.

[superflush]

If you want to work in St. Louis, you'll do better there coming from WUSTL than from whatever T3 you're at now.

Obviously, this would be the case.
What school are you at now?

[thepanda00]

I am at Pace in NY. Just noticed that my messages may have been a little difficult to read via iphone. Anyway, what I was saying was that I would rather work in NYC OVER STL. However, I would be fine working in STL because I have family and friends there. If I went to Wash U--I would not be paying for cost of living--this would eat up a lot of the scholarship money Pace is offering.

I do not think there is a good shot at big law in either situation. That is fine. I would be absolutely alright making 80k + because I will have quite a few loans to pay off. I do have good prior work experience and what I feel to be a decent resume. So where I am conflicted is--I don't know if it would be worth it to leave my school unless the starting salary is going to be at least a 15k difference. Wash U has more prestige obviously, and I would feel a little better about myself lol... but when it comes down to it--that is not what will make the difference for me.

If you were in my situation--given what I have said--what would you do. Appreciate the responses--I have never really been active on the site but have received a lot of useful information. I also like getting 2nd opinions on everything.

[sonervous88]

I am at Pace in NY. Just noticed that my messages may have been a little difficult to read via iphone. Anyway, what I was saying was that I would rather work in NYC OVER STL. However, I would be fine working in STL because I have family and friends there. If I went to Wash U--I would not be paying for cost of living--this would eat up a lot of the scholarship money Pace is offering.

I do not think there is a good shot at big law in either situation. That is fine. I would be absolutely alright making 80k + because I will have quite a few loans to pay off. I do have good prior work experience and what I feel to be a decent resume. So where I am conflicted is--I don't know if it would be worth it to leave my school unless the starting salary is going to be at least a 15k difference. Wash U has more prestige obviously, and I would feel a little better about myself lol... but when it comes down to it--that is not what will make the difference for me.

If you were in my situation--given what I have said--what would you do. Appreciate the responses--I have never really been active on the site but have received a lot of useful information. I also like getting 2nd opinions on everything.

don't know if this is even possible but can you ask them to up it to a full ride? tell them you were accepted and are considering it b/c of better job prospects, but having less debt would alleviate that concern. just an idea. again don't even know if that's possible. but if you'd rather stay in nyc...i would try.

[lovelaw27]

If I were in your position I would transfer. For the class of 2009 only five students got nlj 250 jobs from Pace. In other words you have very little chance at landing a good paying job from Pace. Your job prospects would be a lot better from wustl. Also given your situation it looks like wustl is only going to cost you a little more.

[Lawst]

If I were in your position I would transfer. For the class of 2009 only five students got nlj 250 jobs from Pace. In other words you have very little chance at landing a good paying job from Pace. Your job prospects would be a lot better from wustl. Also given your situation it looks like wustl is only going to cost you a little more.

Yes - transfer. WUSTL would probably place you better in NYC than Pace would, actually.

[Gideon Strumpet]

I am at Pace in NY. Just noticed that my messages may have been a little difficult to read via iphone. Anyway, what I was saying was that I would rather work in NYC OVER STL. However, I would be fine working in STL because I have family and friends there. If I went to Wash U--I would not be paying for cost of living--this would eat up a lot of the scholarship money Pace is offering.

Take the transfer. You will have an order of magnitude better prospects at WUSTL in St. Louis compared with Pace in NY. Also, it's still tough as hell out there for everyone, no matter what school you're at; you may will be glad to have family around when you hit the lean times.

[CanadianWolf]

Ask Pace to increase your scholarship since cost will be similiar if you live at home in St. Louis; if you do not receive an increased scholarship, then enjoy WashUStL.

P.S. With which law school did you unsuccessfully attempt to negotiate scholarship money ? Was that an attempt to increase your current scholarship, or a request for a WashUStL scholarship ?

[xcountryjunkie]

This choice might seem tough now, but when you start applying for jobs you'll be very happy that you transferred. The difference in job prospects between WUSTL and Pace are huge.

[thepanda00]

First, the scholarship was from Pace in which I unsuccessfully negotiated.

I just loaded up http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1 for the first time.

It seems in 2010, around 18% of Wash U grads were placed in NLJ 250. Although this would def. be my goal--I would be completely satisfied with a starting salary of at least 80k. I plan on using the IBR repayment plan, and I figured if I went to Wash U, I would have a better chance at transferring to a NLJ 250 after a few years. I would like to note that the biggest concern of mine is not making it into an NLJ 250 right out of law school, but getting a good paying job to pay down debt and eventually advancing to an NLJ 250.

I like the responses I have gotten here. If anyone could expand a little more on their thoughts of "likelihood of a job of at least 80k in my current situation in top 10 percent and as a middle of the run wash u grad." (Taking the precautionary approach). And any knowledge on 3 years after start working--transferring to NLJ 250, and best approach for that.

[superflush]

I think WUSTL is the clear winner. If you do really well with job placement from WUSTL, you should have great prospects.
But, even if you don't, you should still have a decent job in a place that doesn't have a high COL.
If you strike out at Pace, you might end up with a less than ideal job situation in an area with a high COL.

[uzpakalis]

I do not think there is a good shot at big law in either situation. That is fine. I would be absolutely alright making 80k + because I will have quite a few loans to pay off.

I love how casually you talk about being ok with making 80k+ as a starting salary. I bet there are many WUSTL students that would give their right arm for a 50k job ITE. I would not bank on making 80k right off the bat. Just sayin.

[thepanda00]

Uzpakalis,

This is the kind of information I am seeking. I am not an expert on how much WUSTL grads actually make. I know several that graduated this year with good jobs. 1 was in the top 20 percent, the other two graduated in the bottom half. Also, because I lived there my whole life--I do know that WUSTL has an absolutely outstanding reputation in STL. The market is very bad, which is why I am not immediately discarding your comment(although I am very very doubtful Wash U grads would give their arm to get 50k). However, I am hoping you can expand on it. I would like to know what data you are getting this from. Maybe you are a student there and you have spoken to CSO? If so, please expand.

I have a pretty good feel for what the market is like here in NYC. Pace is not regarded as a great school. The website obviously over exaggerates the numbers. I am realistically thinking about 60k because many of my friends graduated around the middle of the class with jobs at that level. I am more interested in the Wash U information.

[freewheelin]

First, the scholarship was from Pace in which I unsuccessfully negotiated.

I just loaded up http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1 for the first time.

It seems in 2010, around 18% of Wash U grads were placed in NLJ 250. Although this would def. be my goal--I would be completely satisfied with a starting salary of at least 80k. I plan on using the IBR repayment plan, and I figured if I went to Wash U, I would have a better chance at transferring to a NLJ 250 after a few years. I would like to note that the biggest concern of mine is not making it into an NLJ 250 right out of law school, but getting a good paying job to pay down debt and eventually advancing to an NLJ 250.

I like the responses I have gotten here. If anyone could expand a little more on their thoughts of "likelihood of a job of at least 80k in my current situation in top 10 percent and as a middle of the run wash u grad." (Taking the precautionary approach). And any knowledge on 3 years after start working--transferring to NLJ 250, and best approach for that.

Why do you think you will automatically make $80k starting out from WashU if you transfer? Do you already have a job lined up?

[thepanda00]

I am not understanding where you are getting that I think I will "automatically" make 80k by transferring. I explained what my goal was, not what I will automatically make. My goal is to get into the civil sector at at least 80k a year to pay off the substantial amount of debt I have. Just because it is my goal does not mean it will happen. I was hoping for more informative information on statistics and specific thoughts on "to transfer or not to." I have received a lot of solid information. I hope a few more will contribute.

Also, I do have connections in STL. More than NYC. There are a few personal reasons to stay in NYC (not leaving fiance) although she would come back a year later when her schooling ends, and because I love the city. I have a very good work ethic and do very well with meeting new people and making connections. However, I know the market somewhat determines what you make unlike my grades. So I am hoping for more information on the market --related to my goals.

[flexityflex86]

The NYC market is very good, but I don't know if it's good enough to deep into Pace. I'd go to WUSTL. I think as you're already in the top 12% at a t-3, you're probably gonna do alright anywhere. Like someone else said, WUSTL prob. places better in NYC than Pace. However, you do have law review.... does being on it for 1 year get the same "street cred" as being on it for several? Everyone I know in big law from a tier 3 made law review.

[thepanda00]

Well I actually haven't made law review. Hypothetical--If I were not to make law review and the total cost difference between Pace and Wash U was 20k in favor of Pace, would it even matter where I want to work. In other words, is the answer so clear cut Wash U that I shouldn't even be debating it.

One last hypo: What about if I want to practice in California, but cannot make it into UCLA or USC, essentially I am asking if Wash U will give me a lot more room to move around the country or if I am pretty much stuck in St. Louis if I choose Wash U.

[superflush]

Well I actually haven't made law review. Hypothetical--If I were not to make law review and the total cost difference between Pace and Wash U was 20k in favor of Pace, would it even matter where I want to work. In other words, is the answer so clear cut Wash U that I shouldn't even be debating it.

One last hypo: What about if I want to practice in California, but cannot make it into UCLA or USC, essentially I am asking if Wash U will give me a lot more room to move around the country or if I am pretty much stuck in St. Louis if I choose Wash U.

I don't think you would be "stuck in St. Louis," but St. Louis might be the best place for you to get a job.