Advice? Forum

[traehekat]

I figure here is as good a place as any to air out some of my worries, so here goes. A few of you probably know my situation already, but for those who don't here's the story: I'm currently around ~5% at T30 school with a full ride. I love my classmates and I'm relatively happy here for the time being, but I really want to work in Chicago when I graduate. Given the financial situation, I decided outside of HYS, Chicago is probably the only school that would be worth it for me to transfer to. Unfortunately I have been put on hold and I'm beginning to doubt my chances of admission after seeing some of my spring grades roll in (by no means anything to complain about, but my GPA is certainly dropping a bit so that I am probably closer to ~10% at the moment). My first thought after being put on hold was, "Okay, no problem, I'd love to stay where I'm at!"

The thing is, this whole panic post is kind of stemming from the fact that there are really no Chicago firms coming here for OCI. As much as I love my school, I'm worried about that. From my impression, if you want to work for a larger firm in a big city, OCI is pretty much how it's done. I haven't come across too many people who have had much luck with targeted mailings, and I don't really have any connections or anything. Now I'm beginning to think I should be broadening my transfer targets beyond just University of Chicago. What do you guys think? Which of these schools, if any, do you think it would be worth it for me to transfer to? I'm really torn because it is a lot more money, and generally speaking "top ~5% at T30 w/ full ride" sounds like a good spot to be in, but I'm nonetheless worried about getting where I want to be.

Feel free to add any other schools you think it might be worth to throw an app at. Thanks all!

[jdhonest]

You want a big firm in Chicago, but decided out of YH? I can see dropping S, but why Yale and Harvard?

I'd drop Michigan too.

[traehekat]

You want a big firm in Chicago, but decided out of YH? I can see dropping S, but why Yale and Harvard?

I'd drop Michigan too.

Well, I know those are given as far as schools that are going to place well in Chicago (or any other city, for that matter). Obviously those would be worth it for me to transfer to, just not sure on my chances (but I'm not really asking about chances at any given school, just which ones would be worth it).

[09042014]

You want a big firm in Chicago, but decided out of YH? I can see dropping S, but why Yale and Harvard?

I'd drop Michigan too.

I wouldn't necessary drop Mich, but I'd probably drop CLS and NYU. I might be speaking out of turn, but it seems like firms might not believe you transfered (from Iowa is it?) to NYC just to go back to the midwest.

NU will have better placement than Mich inside Chicago but it's not a massive gap, all the big firms still go to Mich.

Are there really that few firms at OCI? What does Career services say? It sucks to have to transfer away from a full ride into 100K more debt.

[traehekat]

You want a big firm in Chicago, but decided out of YH? I can see dropping S, but why Yale and Harvard?

I'd drop Michigan too.

I wouldn't necessary drop Mich, but I'd probably drop CLS and NYU. I might be speaking out of turn, but it seems like firms might not believe you transfered (from Iowa is it?) to NYC just to go back to the midwest.

NU will have better placement than Mich inside Chicago but it's not a massive gap, all the big firms still go to Mich.

Are there really that few firms at OCI? What does Career services say? It sucks to have to transfer away from a full ride into 100K more debt.

Yeah, initially I never even considered CLS or NYU (pretty much for the reasons you mentioned), but I began to think that even with the absurdities of it all I still may have better employment prospects with Chicago firms compared to where I'm at.

Re: number of firms, it isn't pretty. About 45 total, nothing really close to a V100, and nothing from Chicago. I guess the number itself isn't horrible (or at least it is about what I expected), but it's just the geographical focus. Predominately IA and MN firms. Nothing wrong with these firms, obviously, it's just not really where I want to work. I haven't talked with career services yet. I kind of assume they are just going to tell me to go the targeted mailing route, network (whatever that means), etc. Our CSO is great, but they aren't miracle workers.

[CanadianWolf]

Since I can vote four times: Northwestern, Northwestern, Northwestern & Northwestern.

P.S. If you decide to expand the vote to five per poster, I'm ready.

[09042014]

You want a big firm in Chicago, but decided out of YH? I can see dropping S, but why Yale and Harvard?

I'd drop Michigan too.

I wouldn't necessary drop Mich, but I'd probably drop CLS and NYU. I might be speaking out of turn, but it seems like firms might not believe you transfered (from Iowa is it?) to NYC just to go back to the midwest.

NU will have better placement than Mich inside Chicago but it's not a massive gap, all the big firms still go to Mich.

Are there really that few firms at OCI? What does Career services say? It sucks to have to transfer away from a full ride into 100K more debt.

Yeah, initially I never even considered CLS or NYU (pretty much for the reasons you mentioned), but I began to think that even with the absurdities of it all I still may have better employment prospects with Chicago firms compared to where I'm at.

Re: number of firms, it isn't pretty. About 45 total, nothing really close to a V100, and nothing from Chicago. I guess the number itself isn't horrible (or at least it is about what I expected), but it's just the geographical focus. Predominately IA and MN firms. Nothing wrong with these firms, obviously, it's just not really where I want to work. I haven't talked with career services yet. I kind of assume they are just going to tell me to go the targeted mailing route, network (whatever that means), etc. Our CSO is great, but they aren't miracle workers.

Your CSO really should have their OCI in Chicago or something like that. I know Cornell does theirs in NYC.

I'd apply to CN for now, it's not that much more money/effort to add two more apps is it?

I think NW is probably your best bet, if you don't get Uchi.

[traehekat]

Since I can vote four times: Northwestern, Northwestern, Northwestern & Northwestern.

P.S. If you decide to expand the vote to five per poster, I'm ready.

poll fail, ugh. point taken, though (and appreciated).

Your CSO really should have their OCI in Chicago or something like that. I know Cornell does theirs in NYC.

I'd apply to CN for now, it's not that much more money/effort to add two more apps is it?

I think NW is probably your best bet, if you don't get Uchi.

What do you think are the big differences between NW and UChi as far as general opportunities goes? I know NW does pretty well placing students in top Chicago firms, but I'm not familiar with what the prospects are for academia/clerkships.

[CanadianWolf]

In the recent past, Northwestern has been quite open in stating that for those seeking positions in academia, there are a few better choices.

[traehekat]

In the recent past, Northwestern has been quite open in stating that for those seeking positions in academia, there are a few better choices.

I'm not really set on academia or anything, I just want to know what opportunities are going to be available in my effort to assign some kind of value to these schools.

[09042014]

In Chicago, the gap in placement for firms is fairly small.

Academia, don't go to NU if you want it. None of the lower t14 are good for it. Even Columbia and NYU are terrible for it. Chicago is better for this clearly.

Clerking: The rep. of Uchi is a clerking powerhouse but last years numbers were weak. They only beat NU by .9%. But I'd guess Uchi puts more people into clerkships. I was talking with Raiyner about it. He seemed to think that self selection was a big factor in clerking numbers. That would certainly explain why Columbia and NYU do so shitty in clerkships. Schools like Uchicago have a culture that respects and pushes more people to apply for clerkships. Either way I'm sure Uchi has an edge. You should PM G.T.L Rev. He's a clerk. He'll be really informative, and he's very helpful.

[NarwhalPunter]

Iowa has zero Chicago firms coming to Fall OCI? Wow, that is seriously stunning.

[traehekat]

Iowa has zero Chicago firms coming to Fall OCI? Wow, that is seriously stunning.

for clarity's sake, there actually is ONE firm from Chicago interviewing (chapman).

[09042014]

Iowa has zero Chicago firms coming to Fall OCI? Wow, that is seriously stunning.

for clarity's sake, there actually is ONE firm from Chicago interviewing (chapman).

Have you considered a mail in campaign, while targeting other firms at OCI?

[traehekat]

Iowa has zero Chicago firms coming to Fall OCI? Wow, that is seriously stunning.

for clarity's sake, there actually is ONE firm from Chicago interviewing (chapman).

Have you considered a mail in campaign, while targeting other firms at OCI?

yeah that would be the route I plan to go in the event I don't transfer. im concerned that mailing campaigns usually don't lead to much and I might be better off just transferring. it's tough cause I feel logically there shouldn't be much of a difference between bidding on firms as a Chicago or NW transfer and just sending in the same materials as an Iowa student. either way my grades are the same, I would just happen to be attending a different school now.

[uzpakalis]

Have you ever lived in Chicago? If not, you may want to give moving there some serious thought. The weather is awful, not just in the winter, but throughout the year. The summers are incredibly humid and unpleasant. Housing is super expensive. You really don't get any bang for your buck. Taxes are among the highest in the country (if not the highest), and the state of Illinois is in a HUGE financial crisis. Are you not curious as to why there are droves of people fleeing the Midwest every year? I'm not sure if you're a guy or girl, but the women in chi-town are nothing to write home about.

In sum, I don't think you should discount any of the schools mentioned even if you are dead set on Chicago (you may end up hating it).

[09042014]

Iowa has zero Chicago firms coming to Fall OCI? Wow, that is seriously stunning.

for clarity's sake, there actually is ONE firm from Chicago interviewing (chapman).

Have you considered a mail in campaign, while targeting other firms at OCI?

yeah that would be the route I plan to go in the event I don't transfer. im concerned that mailing campaigns usually don't lead to much and I might be better off just transferring. it's tough cause I feel logically there shouldn't be much of a difference between bidding on firms as a Chicago or NW transfer and just sending in the same materials as an Iowa student. either way my grades are the same, I would just happen to be attending a different school now.

Yea, I'm just wondering if it's worth 100K just for an OCI that has Chicago firms. Without scholarship I'd tell you to transfer to NW no problem.

It hinges on how effective a mail in campaign would be. Normallly they aren't that effective, but top 5% from a respected regional school might be different. Maybe talk to your career adviser about how others have fared doing this the last two years (ITE).

While you are there, you should complain, because if your career services can't get more than 1 Chicago firm to go to Iowa City, they are NOT doing their jobs.

I just googled your career center, and it says:

Even more consider Iowa students through off-campus recruiting programs in Chicago, New York City, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles.

Do they have a program for Chicago? If so you should do that. That would explain why none of the firms are driving to Iowa city. They wait for you to come to them.

[traehekat]

Have you ever lived in Chicago?

haha yeah i grew up in the suburbs of chicago (still call it home), so im fairly familiar with the weather, housing, taxes, women, etc. i hear ya tho, there are certainly some aspects of chicago that aren't ideal, but that's just where i want to be.

@DF: ya those are some good questions to ask the CSO. and i agree, i just don't know if 100k is really worth it. i felt like it was barely worth it for uchicago (which had the added benefit of clerkship/academia opportunities), so it may barely be NOT worth it for NW if all I'm reallying paying for is a more robust OCI.

[Cupidity]

None should be an option. You have a full ride and insane placement. Unless you are waaaaaay out of market, like, at davis and want NYC, stay.

[traehekat]

None should be an option. You have a full ride and insane placement. Unless you are waaaaaay out of market, like, at davis and want NYC, stay.

yeah, another poll fail im afraid. i dunno about "insane" placement, tho, i don't think you can really say that about any school outside of T14, maybe T6 (plus it depends on what "placement" we are talking about). plus, in at least some respects i might as well be at davis or some school on the west coast, because either way it is pretty difficult to get in the chicago market.