GW to Chicago/Northwestern Forum

[lightlycurious]

I am a 1L at GW and am actually quite fond of the school. However, for reasons beyond my control, it is looking increasingly likely that I will need to transfer to a school in Chicago for next year. While I try not to get too caught up in the rankings, I would ideally like to transfer to a school with at least as good a reputation as GW. I already know the best advice - get off the internet and study for finals...but I was wondering if anyone here could shed some light on how common transfers from 20 -> top 10 are, and whether there are any resources (like lawschoolnumbers) that indicate what kind of numbers schools like Chicago and Northwestern look for from xfer applicants. Is there a best time to start this process? Perhaps it's also worth mentioning that I have <3.0 undergrad GPA, a 167 LSAT, a great deal of interesting "real-world" experience (which I imagine helped adcomm's look past my GPA), and was rejected by both Chicago and Northwestern the first time around. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[concurrent fork]

Probably around top 15%. You will also want to apply ED to Chicago if you have the grades. LSAT/UGPA does not matter, and rejections from your regular admission cycle can actually be useful when writing your PS (still excited to attend and so forth).

There are some numbers in the database here, but it's far from a complete picture:
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/trans ... =dir&slk=1

[CanadianWolf]

Top 20% is my best guess.

[SupraVln180]

Kinda off-topic, but how did you land GW with a 167 and sub 3.0, are you URM?

[Total Litigator]

Because GW really is a good school, I would probably even say that a top 1/3 rank could do it, but once you get outside top 20% you are leaving more and more to chance. Less than top 1/3 and things start to look really grim/impossible.

[lightlycurious]

not a URM...but had several very strong softs that i imagine helped my cause. i'm also slightly older than the average entering 1L (28). in the end, i was accepted or wl'd at schools ranked higher than GW, and rejected from schools ranked in the 50's+, but i expected it to be an unpredictable cycle.

is there any advantage to putting in a call to their admissions office and asking to speak with someone about my situation? or will they just give me general information and tell me to apply when the time comes (as was the case when i applied as a 0L)...

[ToTransferOrNot]

Top 25%-1/3 isn't going to cut it, particularly for Chicago. Top 10%, and apply early decision to Chicago (recognizing that their process is binding if you get it).

[servinDizzert]

Worst case scenario you could transfer to Illinois? Guess that would be a lateral transfer...top 40%??

[ToTransferOrNot]

Worst case scenario you could transfer to Illinois? Guess that would be a lateral transfer...top 40%??

University of Illinois is several hours south of Chicago - not really commutable.

[vanwinkle]

LSAT and UGPA do not matter. They just don't. 1L grades (and softs, if they are excellent) are all that matters. Basically, it works like this:

1) Without excellent 1L grades you will not get in.
2) If you have excellent 1L grades, softs might make you stand out more than other applicants. But still, nothing says "take me" like having the highest grades.

You're probably looking at top 10%, minimum. Might get away with Northwestern being slightly below that. From the sounds of it I'm sure you'll apply no matter what you get, but to have realistic odds, top 10% or better is where it's at, with emphasis on the "or better".

[concurrent fork]

Hmm.. my guess above was based on someone from my old T30 getting Chi with top 15% (regular decision). AFAIK they did not have any incredible softs. This is my only data point though so who knows.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Hmm.. my guess above was based on someone from my old T30 getting Chi with top 15% (regular decision). AFAIK they did not have any incredible softs. This is my only data point though so who knows.

The difference between a T30 and GW is not going to result in an additional 10-20% cushion on grades. And, frankly, anyone getting in to Chicago at 15% was the exception, not the norm: the vast majority of transfers in my class were in the top 5-10% of their original schools (with a few #1s).

How long ago was this data point? The transfer process is more competitive than it used to be, because top 10% at T30 schools aren't locks in biglaw anymore.

[Lawl Shcool]

Hmm.. my guess above was based on someone from my old T30 getting Chi with top 15% (regular decision). AFAIK they did not have any incredible softs. This is my only data point though so who knows.

The difference between a T30 and GW is not going to result in an additional 10-20% cushion on grades. And, frankly, anyone getting in to Chicago at 15% was the exception, not the norm: the vast majority of transfers in my class were in the top 5-10% of their original schools (with a few #1s).

How long ago was this data point? The transfer process is more competitive than it used to be, because top 10% at T30 schools aren't locks in biglaw anymore.

There was one last year (top 15% at t30 ED) but he hasn't been on these board in awhile

[megaTTTron]

Hmm.. my guess above was based on someone from my old T30 getting Chi with top 15% (regular decision). AFAIK they did not have any incredible softs. This is my only data point though so who knows.

The difference between a T30 and GW is not going to result in an additional 10-20% cushion on grades. And, frankly, anyone getting in to Chicago at 15% was the exception, not the norm: the vast majority of transfers in my class were in the top 5-10% of their original schools (with a few #1s).

How long ago was this data point? The transfer process is more competitive than it used to be, because top 10% at T30 schools aren't locks in biglaw anymore.

There was one last year (top 15% at t30 ED) but he hasn't been on these board in awhile

Because he's mother-effin' studying! (seriously, how awesome is it that I happened to stumble onto this board right after you post that. MAN, I am good.)

Also, everything TToN says is credited.

[zcc2012]

Because he's mother-effin' studying! (seriously, how awesome is it that I happened to stumble onto this board right after you post that. MAN, I am good.)

As I read your post, I could totally hear your voice saying it. Maaaaaannnn. Kinda creepy.

Anyway, I got into Chicago from a T30 with top 12% during regular decision. Weird stuff happens on occasion.

[Lawl Shcool]

Hmm.. my guess above was based on someone from my old T30 getting Chi with top 15% (regular decision). AFAIK they did not have any incredible softs. This is my only data point though so who knows.

The difference between a T30 and GW is not going to result in an additional 10-20% cushion on grades. And, frankly, anyone getting in to Chicago at 15% was the exception, not the norm: the vast majority of transfers in my class were in the top 5-10% of their original schools (with a few #1s).

How long ago was this data point? The transfer process is more competitive than it used to be, because top 10% at T30 schools aren't locks in biglaw anymore.

There was one last year (top 15% at t30 ED) but he hasn't been on these board in awhile

Because he's mother-effin' studying! (seriously, how awesome is it that I happened to stumble onto this board right after you post that. MAN, I am good.)

Also, everything TToN says is credited.

That is fantastic timing 'tron.

[180orbust]

I transferred from T20-->T6 with top 18% grades. So did another friend of mine who transferred T20 --> T6 (he was top 16%).

I got a lot of conflicting information about what grades are required to be able to transfer from a T20, so my conclusion is that no one really knows and you should send in the application if you have a really compelling reason and your grades are somewhere in the ballpark. Like, top 30% is worth sending an app if you REALLY need to transfer. Transfer apps are a pain in the ass, because you need to get two LOR's, so you should consider how much risk of rejection you're willing to tolerate in going through the process.

Take into account how many transfer students each school takes in, too. The schools you're talking about don't take as many transfer students as some other T10 schools, like Berkeley, NYU, Columbia, and Harvard (NW: 30-35, Chi: 15-25). You should also consider applying to Michigan, which accepts another 30 transfer students and is a 4 hour drive away (a do-able weekend commute). This might sound crazy, but maybe even U of Toronto?