Washington and Lee or Case Western Reserve? Forum

[sportslawyer]

well... i still am waiting for other law schools, but these two are current top choices out of all.

i am looking to work either in new york or so-cal. (international/business) possibly in a mid-to-large size firm.

currently, w&l is a tier 1 law school ranked at 34 (used to be higher) and has a stronghold in VA/southeastern region. small but close-knit alumni network. and has produced a number of large firm associates (in 2008 according to tls) in the past.

cwru is ranked at 56 and has a stronghold in Ohio/mid-west region. Bigger alumni network and is known-well for their medical researches and facilities. (although it has nothing to do with me)

both law schools' overall national reputation might be a bleak...

what would you choose?

Ps: this is a transfer

[adammac17]

2 schools im interested in applying to so i want to see how this thread goes...........

but let me start this off with the arbitrary questions?

gpa/lsat? when applying? from where? career goals?

[luthersloan]

I am transferring out of Washington and Lee this year, so I can really only speak about it. Washington and Lee is a great school with a good faculty. However, our career services are quite limited and our placement outside the southeastern region is pretty bad. For example, we had a So-cal job fair we could attend, that had only one firm. New York might be a bit better. I would only recommend Washington and Lee if A) it is the best school you get into and you get into nothing good in your target region, or B) you would be happy in VA/DC.

[highdraws]

Neither of the two are particularly strong in either NYC or SoCal. Case = Midwest, and W&L = Mid Atlantic / Southeast (primarily). If you're married to NYC or SoCal, I'd say you have to look at schools that are most competitive in those geographic regions. Law school and employment prospects are a bit like real estate, it's all about location, location, location. A bottom 1/3 student at a T20 is probably going to have trouble beating out a higher ranked student at a lower ranked, but more regionally relevant school (I think that sentence makes sense). In short, if you want to work in a specific region, you almost always should go to school in that region. And when in doubt, follow the $$$. HTH.

[sportslawyer]

more opinions would be appreciated... thx

[thexfactor]

did u apply to wustl? also how are your stats

[A'nold]

Anyone know W&L's transfer deadline?

[phishskier41]

Anyone know W&L's transfer deadline?

It was either 6.30 or 7.1

[traydeuce]

Pick the better (W&L) of the two schools, but don't go in expecting a good NY job. Frankly, if your transfer apps are topping out in the 30-50 range, it seems more likely than not that you wouldn't quite finish in the top tenth there, which is what you'd need, I think, for a big NY firm. (I went there.) That said, maybe half of the top tenth is leaving so there is a bit of a vacuum that perhaps you could fill.

[Total Litigator]

erm... W&L of course...

If you don't have a regional preference, W&L is a much stronger school... It may be at #34 right now, but it was #30 last year, and #18 several years ago, and historically consistently a top 25 school. Its dip in the rankings is only recent, and frankly, I'm not sure why it has done so... Case's glory days occured a few years ago when it broke the top 50 one year (to be #49), but it is historically ranked in the 50's.

W&L's median LSAT and GPA are 166/3.52, Case's are 158/3.42. Those two numbers are simply on different playing fields, and employers know this.

W&L is the stronger school hands down. If you were applying as a 1L, and had the numbers to get into W&L, you would be looking at a full scholarship at Case.

I don't know how else to put this. Case is a good school, but for God's sake's man, go to W&L!

[luthersloan]

You want to know why Washington and Lee's ranking if falling? two words: Career Services. Apparently we have employment numbers comparable to schools in the ranked in the 80s. On the up side, we have like the 6th or 7th best faculty according to the Princeton Review.

[thexfactor]

ok il be honest here. You will prob not get a job through OCi from either place. WL and Case are similarly priced. So for 80k would you rather have WL on your diploma or Case?
WL with their alumni might actually help you get a job in the future. Case.. not so much.... Furthermore, clients are generally more impressed iwht WL than Case.

The only way I would go to Case above WL is if you really want a job in Lebrontown errr... Cleveland. BTW Lebron is gone too.

[traydeuce]

6th or 7th best faculty seems absurd. Who's especially good there, really? Spencer, Drumbl, Kirgis, Sunby (who's gone), and... Murchison, perhaps? And none of those are even big names, per se. A ton of these people are very good teachers (some not even that) who haven't published anything of any importance. The quality of the instruction's generally quite good but these obviously aren't people who are going to carry any real weight in a clerkship application, aside from perhaps the first two or three. I'm sure if you poll students they say they're really satisfied with their classes, but that's only one factor in rating a faculty.

[presh]

.

[traydeuce]

6th or 7th best faculty seems absurd. Who's especially good there, really? Spencer, Drumbl, Kirgis, Sunby (who's gone), and... Murchison, perhaps? And none of those are even big names, per se. A ton of these people are very good teachers (some not even that) who haven't published anything of any importance. The quality of the instruction's generally quite good but these obviously aren't people who are going to carry any real weight in a clerkship application, aside from perhaps the first two or three. I'm sure if you poll students they say they're really satisfied with their classes, but that's only one factor in rating a faculty.

I'm not quite sure what makes you think you are qualified to evaluate the faculty's credentials. Career Services is definitely our biggest problem. Also, the school's inability to buy comfortable furniture.

Career Services is definitely your biggest problem, furniture/interior decorating being a close second, distance from any employers of value being a third. But there's no way in the world that that's a top ten faculty. Maybe a top ten most approachable in office hours faculty, or top ten most likely to help you remember about a tenth of what you need to know for the bar. But there are a ton of objective measures of scholarly importance out there - citations, journals in which one's published, membership in this or that elite group (American Academy of Arts and Sciences, for example), etc. etc. - and those guys just aren't up there.

[sportslawyer]

how bad is the career service in w&l? really hard to get a job in ny area?

[presh]

.

[sportslawyer]

unfortunately i never applied to fordham.... big mistake (although living cost was a concern)... closest one remaining is rutgers (no answer yet).

[transplantedbuckeye]

I do have a bit of Ohio bias, but Case Western is known within Ohio and the surrounding area as the Ohio school that sends students to the East Coast.

[CanadianWolf]

Is your current law school in the Northeast US or in SoCal?

[sportslawyer]

currently in the mid-west region.