Clerkships and transferring.... Forum

[A'nold]

I know transfers that do not transfer into a t14 (probably higher) aren't going to fare well at OCI and for me this isn't a problem. However, what about clerkships? Don't you get a year to "get great grades and build strong relationships with professors?"

[yellowjacket2012]

you can clerk a year after you graduate law school. That way you can have 3 years of academic records, and have 2 years to establish connections with faculty at your new school. What schools are left in your transfer cycle?

[A'nold]

you can clerk a year after you graduate law school. That way you can have 3 years of academic records, and have 2 years to establish connections with faculty at your new school. What schools are left in your transfer cycle?

Sorry, I'm not understanding your post.....

[Anonymous Loser]

you can clerk a year after you graduate law school. That way you can have 3 years of academic records, and have 2 years to establish connections with faculty at your new school. What schools are left in your transfer cycle?

Sorry, I'm not understanding your post.....

Yellowjacket2012 doesn't seem to understand that clerkship applications are primarily submitted in the September following an applicant's 2L year.

[HAMBONE]

you can clerk a year after you graduate law school. That way you can have 3 years of academic records, and have 2 years to establish connections with faculty at your new school. What schools are left in your transfer cycle?

Sorry, I'm not understanding your post.....

Yellowjacket2012 doesn't seem to understand that clerkship applications are primarily submitted in the September following an applicant's 2L year.

yeah but a lot of people decide to work for a couple of years after graduating and then apply for clerkships. Its a solid option if you transfer to a different school or need all 3 years to bring up your GPA

[A'nold]

you can clerk a year after you graduate law school. That way you can have 3 years of academic records, and have 2 years to establish connections with faculty at your new school. What schools are left in your transfer cycle?

Sorry, I'm not understanding your post.....

Yellowjacket2012 doesn't seem to understand that clerkship applications are primarily submitted in the September following an applicant's 2L year.

yeah but a lot of people decide to work for a couple of years after graduating and then apply for clerkships. Its a solid option if you transfer to a different school or need all 3 years to bring up your GPA

I don't understand the bolded....transfers only earn 2 years of grades.

[traydeuce]

The clerks who transferred that I know did so a year after graduation. It stands to reason, because going the normal route, you'll only have one year of grades at the new school, whereas the competition will all have two years of grades at equally prestigious schools.

[yellowjacket2012]

75% of the clerks for the court of appeals for the federal circuit, in the 04/05 cycle - worked for 1 year after law school, Source: former law clerk to Judge Schall who I spoke with a few days back.

That's just one data-point, and anecdotal - but it could be the case for other circuits. Fed Cir is unique, however, in that it requires a special skill set (patent).

For whoever's interested, all but 2 clerks in teh entire Fed. Cir. in the 04/05 cycle had technical backgrounds. Also same source. Also anecdotal. UC Boalt and Harvard were the two most frequent schools represented in Fed Cir clerkships

I also have a giant boatload of info on Fed Cir clerkship application process, requirements, and statistics, if interested - please feel free to PM me

[A'nold]

I always forget that peeps on here are shooting for the starts compared to me. I'm not necessarily talking about Federal Clerkships. State Supreme or Appellate courts would be cool or Federal Magistrate, etc.

[AcesandEights]

The clerks who transferred that I know did so a year after graduation. It stands to reason, because going the normal route, you'll only have one year of grades at the new school, whereas the competition will all have two years of grades at equally prestigious schools.

While you can certainly take advantage of alum status and try for a clerkship one year out, I know plenty of transfers who did it right after, too. From my T10, between my class and the class before, I know of several students doing federal clerkships straight out (including multiple COA). I was a transfer with pretty good grades who applied broadly and got a number of interviews, both COA and DCT. Sure, you might face resistance with some judges, either on account of transfer bias in general (rare) or just a desire to see more grades from that school, but there are plenty of judges (I'd wager to say the majority, based on my experience) that focus on the bottom line GPA/rank percentage estimate over transcript.

I'm not saying it's easy to get a clerkship as a transfer. It's not easy for anyone. That said, I'm not sure it's all that easier to try for one one year out, especially if you have the grades after your first year at the new school and have worked to get faculty support.

[A'nold]

Bump.

To all of you that want biglaw but are going to strike out at OCI at your transfer school:

If you think about it, if you get top 20% or so again, you may be able to land a federal clerkship of some kind upon graduation. THEN you wouldn't have the whole "3L OCI" situation where you are doomed and instead will have top grades AND a clerkship from a top school. I'm sure you could land some kind of biglaw then. Seems like a backdoor into biglaw for transfers bound to strike out. I personally am not really interested in this but I'm sure it can be done.

[ToTransferOrNot]

For what it's worth, OCS and the clerkship committee has gone back and forth on whether I should have applied to all Magistrate judges or all feeder judges Chicago's clerkship process is retarded, though--they cap you at 50-ish applications, so you really do have to choose. I am going to raise hell about that with the administration if I end up striking out on clerkships.

That said, I screwed myself, and didn't get a good writing sample in time for the cycle--I just assumed I would have my Comment done. Didn't happen. Don't do that to yourself--aside from having to choose (I went with all circuit judges, but not feeders for the most part, with a handful of exceptions)--my writing sample is probably going to cost me a clerkship. So, in other words, my writing sample is going to make me $100k --but I'm still dissappointed. I also didn't work hard enough for my journal--I probably would have had a better chance if I got Editor in Chief instead of Comments Editor.

Your mileage will vary though. You'll need to do quite well at the transfer school to have much of a shot--I would say that I, at top 1-2%, was given the same advice as 10-15% people. Big part of that, of course, is that you're far less likely to be on Law Review as a transfer, and that really hurts your chances. If you're not on any journal as a transfer, you should obviously forget about circuit courts.

[rockstar4488]

I was told by the federal judge my friend is clerking for, that he does not consider any students who have transferred. His rationale was simply that he needed some criteria to thin out the pool of applicants.

Edit: AcesandEights mentions that this transfer bias is rare. It certainly does exist though.

[traydeuce]

I was told by the federal judge my friend is clerking for, that he does not consider any students who have transferred. His rationale was simply that he needed some criteria to thin out the pool of applicants.

The judge I'm interning for, Third Circuit judge, does take transfers as clerks. For what it's worth.

[rockstar4488]

I was told by the federal judge my friend is clerking for, that he does not consider any students who have transferred. His rationale was simply that he needed some criteria to thin out the pool of applicants.

The judge I'm interning for, Third Circuit judge, does take transfers as clerks. For what it's worth.

Good to hear. Seemed like a pretty pointless reason to disqualify people.

[A'nold]

TTON- what about magistrate judges and district court judges? What kind of credentials will they be looking for in a transfer to, say, a t25 school?

Also, what are "feeder judges?"

[solidsnake]

Also, what are "feeder judges?"

--LinkRemoved--

[A'nold]

Also, what are "feeder judges?"

--LinkRemoved--

Thanks.

[A'nold]

Ah, so of no interest to me then, haha.

[AcesandEights]

Good to hear. Seemed like a pretty pointless reason to disqualify people.

I do think true transfer bias is extremely rare. By that, I mean a judge who refuses to consider transfers just because they are transfers.

The kind of bias that harms transfers is typically isolated to very, very tough to get circuit judges, and the reasons are more structural than anything else. I think the first reason transfers may have trouble with those judges is that they want more grades from the new school. If you have two amazing candidates, both from similar schools with similar ranks and credentials, you're probably going to go with the non-transfer. They have less of a record at the new school, and that's the one the judge is comfortable with insofar as grade measure. Second, and possibly more importantly, transfers could have diminished access to the professors who have ins with those types of judges, as a lot of those professors are featured heavily in 1L curriculum. Third, transfers often lack law review.

Again, transfers have a good shot at a clerkship (yes, even circuit) if you do well in your class, cultivate good relationships with professors and do some kind of journal work. If your application is unique, you might even get calls from a few semi-feeders. Just don't bank on clerking for the likes of Posner, Reinhardt, Boudin, Sutton, Fletcher, etc. And don't tell yourself it's because they dislike transfers. It's just that getting those clerkships is insanely competitive, over and above the insane competition for all circuit clerkships.

[bizen boat]

TToN and AcesandEights: How viable is a district court clerkship as a transfer to CCN (specifically Chicago) with probably no journal (unless I do topic access)? If viable, is it a desirable way to launch a career for someone who wants either government or mid/big-law. In other words, a respectable career, not necessarily V10 or hell even V100.

I've always had an interest in clerking simply because it seems more academic than straight up firm life (correct me if I'm wrong on this). However, I know next to nothing about the process. Thanks for your previous informative and helpful posts.

[ToTransferOrNot]

All depends on how you do. Median? No chance. You'll do better than median though. I'm sure I could get a district court clerkship somewhere fairly easily. Any federal clerkship will be tough without some kind of journal work. Sorry that I don't have a better sense of this for you--I took the CoA gamble and stuck with it, as I didn't feel a district court outside of the market I want to practice in was worth waiting a year to start practicing, and my judge list filled up before I could add Chicago district court judges.

[AcesandEights]

Disclaimer: You don't have grades yet, so this is cart before the horse. I'd definitely try to do a journal, but I'm not sure if that's still an option.

DCT can be a mixed bag and really depends on where you focus and where you have connections. From Chicago, if you target a major market (like NDIL), I'd surmise you're going to need credentials roughly similar to COA, with some limited variance up and down. Without journal, major market DCT would be tough, and you'd probably need to be top ten percent at least, probably higher to make up for a lack of journal. If you're willing to go anywhere in a region (like the Midwest), with no journal, I'd guess you'd need top twenty percent at least, with some variance if you have good ties to a secondary market or area. I do know of a few people from my school who got interviews in non-major market DCT with no journal and who weren't way up in the class (but did well). It'll depend on your grades, but if you end up "competitive but not top five percent" or so, I'd focus on DCT in secondary markets or areas where you have ties.