University of Baltimore or American WCL Forum

[RonZesty]

Hey everyone. Just finished my first year at University of Baltimore (third-tier). Rankings aren't out yet, but probably in the top 15-20%. Just admitted as a transfer student at American WCL (email decision 7/9).

I'm trying to make the decision whether to go ahead and put in the seat deposit for AU (7/19 deadline). From what i've seen on the boards, there are a lot of AU critics. I'm not trying to defend American; just trying to make an informed decision. UBalt is currently considering offering me a grant to stay on. I'm paying in-state (full-price right now).

I've made very good relationships with professors. Research assistant for one and law clerking for another. I'm on Moot court and waiting to hear from law review (i'd say there is a 50-50 shot of making LR). Would probably finish in the top 10% at UBalt (considering lots of students transfer after 1L). I don't have biglaw aspirations. Ideally would like to work in DC. The option to move away from Maryland is also a plus.

I guess my question is how much $ would it take UBalt to offer before I should reconsider transferring. I'd be paying full-price at American. I'm also adding a poll with the more general "stay or go?" question.

[deadpanic]

American is not worth anything close to sticker.

I don't know that Balt is worth sticker either though. Have you applied to UMD?

[RonZesty]

Thanks for your reply. I didn't apply to UMD because it would have really irked the professors that I have good relationships with. In hindsight, I probably should have found a way (in fact, the professors who wrote my letter of rec flat out told me they wouldn't write one if I was applying to UMD. Huge chip on the shoulder at UB). Balt is increasing tuition next year also. They are trying to fund the new building that is being constructed. UB is already more expensive than UMD.

If I was planning to stay in Baltimore, then UB would be a no brainer. In fact, if I were staying in Baltimore I probably would chose UB over UMD. The fact that I'd like to be in DC, however, makes the decision more difficult.

[romothesavior]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

[RonZesty]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

Without any grant, the difference looks to be about $10k a year more to go to American. I'd be saving on rent because my family lives in DC. Right now i'm renting in Baltimore. If the grant is approved, however, then the difference in cost would certainly change.

[romothesavior]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

Without any grant, the difference looks to be about $10k a year more to go to American. I'd be saving on rent because my family lives in DC. Right now i'm renting in Baltimore. If the grant is approved, however, then the difference in cost would certainly change.

I dunno much about Baltimore, but I've heard they do okay in their city. But American is a festering TTTTTTTTTT.

Where do you want to practice? What do you think your job options are currently?

[RonZesty]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

Without any grant, the difference looks to be about $10k a year more to go to American. I'd be saving on rent because my family lives in DC. Right now i'm renting in Baltimore. If the grant is approved, however, then the difference in cost would certainly change.

I dunno much about Baltimore, but I've heard they do okay in their city. But American is a festering TTTTTTTTTT.

Where do you want to practice? What do you think your job options are currently?

I want to practice in DC. OCI are in the Fall at Balt. Without law review, there's almost no chance to get a decent SA offer. Right now I am leaning toward waiting to see if I get onto Law Review. If I do, then I think i'll stay. If not, then i'll bite the financial bullet. It's a blinking contest with the $900 deposit from WCL.

[romothesavior]

Any idea how transfers fare at American? My guess is horribly, but you should look into that yourself.

[HazelEyes]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

Without any grant, the difference looks to be about $10k a year more to go to American. I'd be saving on rent because my family lives in DC. Right now i'm renting in Baltimore. If the grant is approved, however, then the difference in cost would certainly change.

I dunno much about Baltimore, but I've heard they do okay in their city. But American is a festering TTTTTTTTTT.

Where do you want to practice? What do you think your job options are currently?

I disagree with romothesavior. American is definitely better than U B'more. Though in full disclosure I am going to WCL this fall, and I am worried about high tuition costs.

[romothesavior]

What's the difference?

Stay at your current school fo SHO.

Without any grant, the difference looks to be about $10k a year more to go to American. I'd be saving on rent because my family lives in DC. Right now i'm renting in Baltimore. If the grant is approved, however, then the difference in cost would certainly change.

I dunno much about Baltimore, but I've heard they do okay in their city. But American is a festering TTTTTTTTTT.

Where do you want to practice? What do you think your job options are currently?

I disagree with romothesavior. American is definitely better than U B'more. Though in full disclosure I am going to WCL this fall, and I am worried about high tuition costs.

No doubt it is better, but is it worth it? That's the question.

Vanderbilt is unquestionably better than WUSTL, but I wouldn't transfer there if in the top 10-15% at the end of next year. Transferring to a better school is not always TCR.

[RonZesty]

I'm starting to lean toward going to American if I don't make it onto Law Review. I've talked to the career services office and some recent alums, and it seems like Law Review is necessary for a lot of the SA jobs out of UB (especially in this job market).

[270910]

I'm starting to lean toward going to American if I don't make it onto Law Review. I've talked to the career services office and some recent alums, and it seems like Law Review is necessary for a lot of the SA jobs out of UB (especially in this job market).

Unlike at American, where summer associate positions are bountiful and the shame is how many have to be wasted once everyone has had their fill.

[Grizz]

Resign yourself to the fact that chances for DC are slim.

[A'nold]

Staying and networking seems to be TCR. However, transferring and networking can work too, but I hear D.C. is impossibly difficult.

[romothesavior]

Staying and networking seems to be TCR. However, transferring and networking can work too, but I hear D.C. is impossibly difficult.

It is hard to network in D.C. because they cannot hear you, because their ears are attached to their heads, which are shoved very far up their own asses.

[phishskier41]

I would stay at Baltimore if I were you, unless you despise living in the Baltimore area. If I were you I would start networking in the Baltimore area, and even make connections in the surrounding markets, Towson, Frederick, and Annapolis. D.C. is going to be very tough coming from Baltimore, but I don't think transferring to American would make your chances all that better. You may get a job in the D.C. area, but I do not think the job you would get will be better than your situation at Baltimore.

While legal jobs in baltimore are limited as it is a secondary/third-level market, being from Baltimore I know that the key to getting a job there is networking. It matters a lot that you demonstrate you really want to be in Baltimore. It is important to note that Baltimore while being a third tier school has a fairly decent reputation with judges and lawyers in the city. I am currently working with a judge in Baltimore City and most of the clerks and interns are from the University of Baltimore.

Good luck on your decision.

[rockstar4488]

Ouch, harsh that you got locked out of UMD. UB, from what I hear, is a nice little program. But it locks you in Baltimore. You're from the area, you know how the playing field is drawn up....If you want your life on the Montgomery side of the Moco/Howard County border, WCL is the answer. Want the Howard County/Baltimore side? UB. Personally, I'd go to WCL and not think twice about it.

[RonZesty]

@phishskier41: Thanks for your advice. UB’s rep in the city/surrounding area is pretty impressive. I interned at the COA this summer and most of the law clerks and interns were also from UB. The school takes a lot of pride in their clerkship placement program.

@rockstar4488: Sounds like you know the MD landscape pretty well. Considering Columbia/Ellicott City was ranked the #2 place to live in America this week, maybe the Howard County floodgates will open.

[AttractiveNuisance]

I transferred from Ubalt last year with almost identical statistics to yours. I did make law review. If you want to ask me any questions about the process send me a PM. My advice would be to definitely not transfer. American doesn't offer much better prospects than UB and you will be losing your numbers now. If you are top 15-20% I am wagering you will make law review because (I think) it's 50% grades? Anyways, you should be resigned to the fact that you will likely strike out at OCI regardless of where you go, just because that's how it is right now (unless you have some connection, are a URM, or have some other circumstance we don't know about). UB does a surprisingly good job with clerkships. My advice to you, if you are so inclined, would be to work hard, stay at UB, and work on clerkship applications + good work experience. That way you will be a little bit more competitive and give the economy more time to recover.

Just my two cents... I hate giving advice on here.

Also, AU isn't much better off than UB right now. Let us know if you get in somewhere significantly better.

[romothesavior]

My advice would be to definitely not transfer.

Listen to the (wo)man. Stay put.

[rockstar4488]

I really think that should you stay, you need to harass them about shelling out some major cash. UB is surprisingly not cheap.

I don't know how generous they are with scholarships and grants, as they offered me none.

[AttractiveNuisance]

I really think that should you stay, you need to harass them about shelling out some major cash. UB is surprisingly not cheap.

I don't know how generous they are with scholarships and grants, as they offered me none.

FWIW, they offered me a 1k per year (I think per year) scholarship after I received nothing upon acceptance. Again, with the same numbers you have. I wouldn't count on much money, but who knows.

[rockstar4488]

I really think that should you stay, you need to harass them about shelling out some major cash. UB is surprisingly not cheap.

I don't know how generous they are with scholarships and grants, as they offered me none.

FWIW, they offered me a 1k per year (I think per year) scholarship after I received nothing upon acceptance. Again, with the same numbers you have. I wouldn't count on much money, but who knows.

Do you know of UBaltimore giving out decent chunks money to any of its rising 2Ls? Or incoming students for that matter.

[RonZesty]

The dean's office sent out applications for the "Continuing Student Scholarship Program" in the first week of June. The applications were due on 6/25. I don't know anyone who has heard back yet. Apparently the scholarship offers were sent to students with a 3.2 or above. For what it's worth, I know a lot of people who say that they received a scholarship as incoming 1Ls.

[RonZesty]

Just an update (I have still not made my final decision)

Class ranks came out and I finished right inside the top 15% (14.6%). I thought that I would be much closer to the outside of 10% looking in, but that’s what I get for using last year’s numbers as an estimate. UB has offered me a two thousand dollar scholarship. For not being in the top 10%, I was actually surprised by the gesture (however small). I was also able to write-on to Law Review.

I believe the poll is still an accurate representation of my choices. I guess I’m updating because I need to make a decision in the next few days. The added variables are the following: (1) not as much money as I would have liked (though financing law school is not that big an issue because I’ve saved enough for school and any scholarship would have been money in the bank) (2) not as high a class rank as expected (which makes me think that I was fortunate to be accepted to a T1) (3) Formally invited to law review (when I created this thread, writing-on to law review was mere speculation)

I look forward to your wisdom and advıce, as well as the inevitable WCL bashing that is bound to occur. = P