Transferring Down--Questions about Schollys--Please Help! Forum

[totalidiot]

Hello all,

I'm currently at SLS, but I really miss my home state and realize that if I ever were to want to practice law (which I don't even really think I do), it would be there. But there aren't any 'market' rate jobs where I'm from (rural midwest). So I'm thinking of transferring to my state law school.

Is there any chance that they would offer me a full scholly to transfer there? My LSAT/GPA combo was 177+/4.0, if that factors in. I know it all seems like a huge waste at this point, but I feel like I needed to go to SLS to see whether the whole biglaw/'Ivy pedigree' culture was for me, and I've simply found that it isn't. I really hate being here compared to being back home, and it was a mistake to leave for a number of reasons; as such, to reiterate the question: do state schools offer full schollys to transfer students?

[dudester]

You need to ask that question directly to the law school. Also,

I feel like I needed to go to SLS to see whether the whole biglaw/'Ivy pedigree' culture was for me, and I've simply found that it isn't.

Fail.

[ggocat]

do state schools offer full schollys to transfer students?

Generally no.

[ToTransferOrNot]

No. You don't help their USNews numbers at this point.

[CanadianWolf]

Since there is only one, or possibly two, law schools in question, why not just call the law school & ask for yourself. USNews rankings are not the sole consideration for the creation of & awarding of scholarships. Many scholarships were created by donors wishing to attract a certain type of student to that law school. I was offered a scholarship to an LLM program and LLM programs have no effect on USNews law school rankings. Law schools like to boast about their product produced; imagine the additional bragging rights for a regional law school attracting a student with your background. State Supreme Court justices might like the opportunity to interview someone of your calibre assuming that you do well in law school.
P.S. Try not to use the word "schollys" when referring to scholarships.

[Bankhead]

Wait, is this a joke? You are going to leave SLS and go to a state school back home?

[A'nold]

This post hurt my stomach. I can't see how anybody could do this and not regret the decision for the rest of their life. Stick it out for two more years and then move back home. Fly there all the time and skip classes if you must and just pass, but don't leave with only two more years left at one of the top 3 law schools in the world.

[vanwinkle]

This post hurt my stomach. I can't see how anybody could do this and not regret the decision for the rest of their life. Stick it out for two more years and then move back home. Fly there all the time and skip classes if you must and just pass, but don't leave with only two more years left at one of the top 3 law schools in the world.

This.

[minuit]

I really think you should talk to the law school about your situation, because normally schools don't give out scholarships to transfers, but normally people are transferring up, not down!

[charliec9]

You can call the state school and ask, but I doubt you'll get anything. As most have already mentioned, scholarships for JD programs are typically provided only to the entering class. Some might provide need-based aid, but full or even half awards are unlikely.

My main point: You should really consider taking a leave of absence, rather than transferring. You mentioned that you don't even know if you want to continue with law. The difference between Stanford and a state school is huge. If you want to return to your home state and Stanford doesn't place there, I doubt you'll have problems--with ties, I'd wager you'll do fine with a job there. If you don't want to work biglaw, I'm fairly sure Stanford has a generous LRAP. You can work summers at home.

If you ultimately decide that law isn't for you, going to a state school on full pay or paying for the rest of Stanford are both pointless. In essence, either tough it out at Stanford, or withdraw from law completely. A leave of absence will let you sort that out. Homesickness sucks, but you'd be giving up a huge opportunity, if you ultimately end up deciding law is for you.

[Cleareyes]

I think contacting the schools to find out is a good idea. I also would be hesitant to do this, just because if you don't want to practice law an SLS law degree will probably open a lot more non-legal doors than one from State U.

Another thing worth considering is checking to see whether you could be a visiting student your 3L year at one of your local law schools. That might take the bite out of being away, knowing you only have one more year, and though it wouldn't save you money you would still get that SLS degree. AND you would get to network in the market where you ultimately want to end up.

I think that looking into a leave of absence might also not be a bad idea. At least better than going to a much lower ranked school for full price when you don't really want to be a lawyer.

[Action Jackson]

For transfers don't they want your LS grades over your LSAT/GPA stats? Or does that not matter for transferring down? I feel like someone has to put this out there: is this really about your LS grades? Because I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by "biglaw/'Ivy pedigree' culture." SLS isn't an Ivy, first of all, and not everyone at SLS is "BIGLAW FTW."

If this is really about being homesick then you should really grow up a little bit and suck it up.

[XxSpyKEx]

This has to be a FLAME. No one is dumb enough to leave SLS to go to a state school because they are homesick.

[Cleareyes]

For transfers don't they want your LS grades over your LSAT/GPA stats? Or does that not matter for transferring down? I feel like someone has to put this out there: is this really about your LS grades? Because I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by "biglaw/'Ivy pedigree' culture." SLS isn't an Ivy, first of all, and not everyone at SLS is "BIGLAW FTW."

If this is really about being homesick then you should really grow up a little bit and suck it up.

Transferring down is rare so it's not clear exactly how it works from as far as I can tell. LS grades would be more important, but since Stanford barely gives grades it's not clear what they would analyze. Likely they would focus on the fact that he got into Stanford and is, presumably, passing there.

As for the "biglaw/ ivy pedigree culture" I know exactly what he's talking about (I'm not at Stanford, but Harvard has a reputation for having MORE of it.) It's not just about biglaw, It's about focusing on achievement over quality of life and a bunch of type A people rubbing up against each other producing friction. It's about the kind of person who would assume someone unhappy at a top law school was unhappy because their grades were bad, and then tell the person to "grow up and suck it up" because graduating from Stanford is OBVIOUSLY more important than being happy or fulfilled for a couple years.

Edit: I actually really like my school and my classmates. But I understand why it would be difficult to be in this kind of environment if you were a different personality type.

[Action Jackson]

For transfers don't they want your LS grades over your LSAT/GPA stats? Or does that not matter for transferring down? I feel like someone has to put this out there: is this really about your LS grades? Because I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by "biglaw/'Ivy pedigree' culture." SLS isn't an Ivy, first of all, and not everyone at SLS is "BIGLAW FTW."

If this is really about being homesick then you should really grow up a little bit and suck it up.

Transferring down is rare so it's not clear exactly how it works from as far as I can tell. LS grades would be more important, but since Stanford barely gives grades it's not clear what they would analyze. Likely they would focus on the fact that he got into Stanford and is, presumably, passing there.

As for the "biglaw/ ivy pedigree culture" I know exactly what he's talking about (I'm not at Stanford, but Harvard has a reputation for having MORE of it.) It's not just about biglaw, It's about focusing on achievement over quality of life and a bunch of type A people rubbing up against each other producing friction. It's about the kind of person who would assume someone unhappy at a top law school was unhappy because their grades were bad, and then tell the person to "grow up and suck it up" because graduating from Stanford is OBVIOUSLY more important than being happy or fulfilled for a couple years.

Edit: I actually really like my school and my classmates. But I understand why it would be difficult to be in this kind of environment if you were a different personality type.

So the expectation is back in OP's home state the law students are NOT type A people? That even though competition for jobs out of lower ranked schools is more fierce than at the top schools the people are going to be nicer and friendlier?

And yes, graduating for Stanford Law School is OBVIOUSLY more important than being happy and fulfilled for TWO (2, dos) more years. It's called being an adult. You don't get to have everything you want every second of every day, and sometimes you have to suffer through a bad situation for a couple of years in order to make the rest of your life better. Case in point, I didn't see my father more than ten times between the ages of 10 and 14 because he was working his ass off in another country. That hurt him more than it hurt us, but because he did that he was able to provide for us for the rest of our lives. It's called life. Sometimes it sucks to grow up.

[Cleareyes]

So the expectation is back in OP's home state the law students are NOT type A people? That even though competition for jobs out of lower ranked schools is more fierce than at the top schools the people are going to be nicer and friendlier?

And yes, graduating for Stanford Law School is OBVIOUSLY more important than being happy and fulfilled for TWO (2, dos) more years. It's called being an adult. You don't get to have everything you want every second of every day, and sometimes you have to suffer through a bad situation for a couple of years in order to make the rest of your life better. Case in point, I didn't see my father more than ten times between the ages of 10 and 14 because he was working his ass off in another country. That hurt him more than it hurt us, but because he did that he was able to provide for us for the rest of our lives. It's called life. Sometimes it sucks to grow up.

Depending on the state, if the majority of students are drawn from that state they may be a very different kind of type A. They might also be less snobbish in the way top school students can be.*

In terms of your second claim, way to compare a (presumably) single guy trying to figure out his life to a man with a family to support. Totally different situations. You also don't know what totalidiots other options are. He says he doesn't really want to be a lawyer. Making yourself miserable for two years to get a credential for a career you don't want is silly. If he can support himself and his future family reasonably through another career there's no reason he has to pursue big law. Sure when you're desperate and you need to do something to support your family you do what you have to do, but to tell people that they must pursue wealth at the cost of all else is myopic and foolish. Life is about a lot more than your bank account, especially after you achieve a certain level of comfort. If you think that the lesson of growing up is 'pursue money and career success at all costs to mental health and happiness' then perhaps you have some more of it to do yourself.


*I've actually experienced very little snobbery at Harvard. Much less than expected.

[legends159]

Do transfers get any merit aid ever?

[Action Jackson]

So the expectation is back in OP's home state the law students are NOT type A people? That even though competition for jobs out of lower ranked schools is more fierce than at the top schools the people are going to be nicer and friendlier?

And yes, graduating for Stanford Law School is OBVIOUSLY more important than being happy and fulfilled for TWO (2, dos) more years. It's called being an adult. You don't get to have everything you want every second of every day, and sometimes you have to suffer through a bad situation for a couple of years in order to make the rest of your life better. Case in point, I didn't see my father more than ten times between the ages of 10 and 14 because he was working his ass off in another country. That hurt him more than it hurt us, but because he did that he was able to provide for us for the rest of our lives. It's called life. Sometimes it sucks to grow up.

Depending on the state, if the majority of students are drawn from that state they may be a very different kind of type A. They might also be less snobbish in the way top school students can be.*

In terms of your second claim, way to compare a (presumably) single guy trying to figure out his life to a man with a family to support. Totally different situations. You also don't know what totalidiots other options are. He says he doesn't really want to be a lawyer. Making yourself miserable for two years to get a credential for a career you don't want is silly. If he can support himself and his future family reasonably through another career there's no reason he has to pursue big law. Sure when you're desperate and you need to do something to support your family you do what you have to do, but to tell people that they must pursue wealth at the cost of all else is myopic and foolish. Life is about a lot more than your bank account, especially after you achieve a certain level of comfort. If you think that the lesson of growing up is 'pursue money and career success at all costs to mental health and happiness' then perhaps you have some more of it to do yourself.


*I've actually experienced very little snobbery at Harvard. Much less than expected.

Wait, he doesn't want to be a lawyer? I missed that. Then why transfer at all? Just drop out. I'm the exact opposite of someone telling people to get a law degree they're not going to use.

If you think that the lesson of growing up is 'pursue money and career success at all costs to mental health and happiness' then perhaps you have some more of it to do yourself.

We need to be clear on this: sometimes you have to put up with a bad situation for a limited period of time to ensure the rest of your life is better. Sometimes that means going to a city/state/country you don't like for a couple of years so that you can get a better position in your career so that you and your family have a better life. Sometimes it means staying in a school you don't like because your job prospects out of school will be much, much, much better. Sometimes it means staying married because you don't want your kids to grow up in a broken home.

Yes, sometimes situations are intolerable, and the long term cost to you in staying is greater than leaving, but sometimes it's not. But what we're talking about here, it sounds, is a kinda crappy situation for 2 years, in exchange for having better job prospects for the rest of OP's life (assuming OP wants those job prospects). That means getting better PI/govt jobs if that's what he wants.

Now maybe I'm misreading the severity of OP's displeasure with Stanford. Maybe he's really, really miserable and sad and thinking of killing himself. In that case, I would definitely suggest he get out of that situation and figure out his next steps. But if he just kinda doesn't like his classmates, and thinks his classmates back home are going to be SOOO much better, then that sounds like whining to me. And yes, it's okay to not be 100% comfortable in every situation without bemoaning one's "mental health."

But if this is just that he doesn't like his classmates, then that's a very silly reason to upend your life and reduce your job prospects FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's okay to not be happy, if it means your life, long term, will be better for it.

Of course, if he really doesn't want to be a lawyer, then it doesn't matter what law school he's at or whether or not he likes his classmates. If you don't want to be a lawyer don't go to law school, and if you're already there, get out. Don't waste your time on something that you don't want. If he's realized he doesn't want to deal with competitive, type A people, then don't go into law, which by all accounts is dominated by competitive, type A people at every level. That is, don't bother transferring to another law school if you don't want to do the job. Just find something you do want to do.

Finally, because I don't want there to be any confusion, I think OP's comments about his classmates is bullshit. Stanford isn't Harvard, and you're saying Harvard ain't that bad. Either OP needs to get out more and meet different people, or this isn't REALLY about the people there. It's either the grades, or maybe OP is overwhelmed at LS, or maybe OP has realized he hates the law, or something else that's very fundamental. That's what I was prodding about with my first post. Though I would automatically suspect grades, if you're saying he's having second thoughts about being a lawyer then it's likely one of those other things instead. Those are good reasons to either transfer or quit. But not loving your classmates? Sorry, but like I said, grow up and suck it up.

[270910]

Do transfers get any merit aid ever?

No.

[Chichaca]

This thread makes me so sad.

[sanpiero]

Do transfers get any merit aid ever?

No.

False. I have talked to two schools that do offer merit aid to transfers. If you are interested in applying to schools that consider transfers for merit aid, simply send an e-mail to the dean of admissions/financial aid. Many don't offer such aid but some do.

[iShotFirst]

Sounds like your homesick, can't you just stick it out for two years and then return home as a king? You can get a job in your home market for the summers even. Two years isnt that long in the whole scheme of things, and trading a SLS degree for an uncertain future at a state institution just sounds wrong. It cant be that bad, surely.