Transfer Paranoia Vent Thread Forum

[A'nold]

We keep talking about our fears in other threads so I thought I'd try to compile them into one depressing/motivating/cathartic tell all thread.

So, my new thing is that I feel like I am very far behind. I feel like I have completely forgotten everything I used to succeed last semester and that I am a below median kind of student right now. I'm helping a friend who didn't do so hotly last semester and I feel like I will let him down and that I am not Mr. Knowledgable like I thought, and he will hate me when he gets median grades again. I actually have faith in this guy's ability but not my own right now for some reason.

I also feel like I am trying to sabotage myself, like maybe I'm "scared of success" like my father-in-law once told me. Although I feel ultimately blessed, I feel like I am a fish out of water and that I am mediocre at best, just posing as this great law student.

I have this kind of "transfer's worst nightmare" thought going on in my head (note I said transfer's worst nightmare, so it is relative and I'm not trying to sound cocky). The nightmare is that not only will I not get into any transfer schools, but I will slip below the top 10% and miss LR at my school. So not only will I not transfer into a great national school, but my local options will be zilch, just like that. From dreams of becoming one of the most elite students in the country to scraping for a local county job w/out law review and facing unemployment upon graduation.

There's my vent. You?

[stinger35]

As you know, I am having many of the same feelings. Its like once grades came out I was like "i am the shit," and spent a month patting myself on the back for doing so well. Then, the bliss wears off and the paranoia sets in.

Obviously I feel like I am doing less work (and i probably am) - I am reading less cases for sure (because I didn't open my casebook even once to study for exams) but then worry that it will eventually hurt my grades. As badly as I want to do everything the same as last semester, as we said, I have no idea what I did on a day to day basis or how much I studied, if I am studying more or less, etc. etc. I also worry that my classes this semester move slower and are therefore going to be easier. Not only do these kids now understand how to take exams better, but the exams themselves will be easier and therefore the difference between an A and a B harder to distinguish. Even though I CALI'd each of my doctrinal classes, I freak out thinking that I have to be one of the top 5-10 test takers in the room to get an A. Even after doing it once I dont think theres a chance I'll do it again. Even though we are in the pole position, it seems so easy to falter. Though I am top 1-2% now, if I am, say, top 30% this semester (honestly, not that bad), it still takes me out of contention for transferring.

Then I think to myself "oh well, i went to this school to be a lawyer and if I can't transfer, its not that bad of a school." Then I realize, as you said, I would be out of contention for law review and any shot at biglaw at OCI here would too be gone.

So I just tell myself to relax and hope I at least get into GULC EA and can quit the anxiety attacks. But still, if I falter here this semester, I have to explain to employers at GULC OCI why I was only top 25% at a T2.

Oh, then I start worrying about even if I do get the grades - our class rank doesn't come out until July.



Ok. Rant over. In every school across the US there is a top 10% at the end of the year. I am guessing that 9% of that top 10% were in the top 10% after the first semester. Ive never even seen a TLS story of someone that was top 5-10% and fell the next semester. While I am sure there is - lets all calm down. We are smart. Or at least exam-savvy. We did it once, why can't we do it again. Shouldn't it be easier now that the unknowns of law exams are gone? Lets all take a few deep breaths and get back to the E&E's, Legal Writing assignments, hornbooks, beers, videogames, or whatever. In the words of a man named Bob, "everything gonna be alright...everythings gonna be all right." Come mid-July, we will all be where we belong

(HOLY SHIT THIS WAS LONG)

[A'nold]

As you know, I am having many of the same feelings. Its like once grades came out I was like "i am the shit," and spent a month patting myself on the back for doing so well. Then, the bliss wears off and the paranoia sets in.

Obviously I feel like I am doing less work (and i probably am) - I am reading less cases for sure (because I didn't open my casebook even once to study for exams) but then worry that it will eventually hurt my grades. As badly as I want to do everything the same as last semester, as we said, I have no idea what I did on a day to day basis or how much I studied, if I am studying more or less, etc. etc. I also worry that my classes this semester move slower and are therefore going to be easier. Not only do these kids now understand how to take exams better, but the exams themselves will be easier and therefore the difference between an A and a B harder to distinguish. Even though I CALI'd each of my doctrinal classes, I freak out thinking that I have to be one of the top 5-10 test takers in the room to get an A. Even after doing it once I dont think theres a chance I'll do it again. Even though we are in the pole position, it seems so easy to falter. Though I am top 1-2% now, if I am, say, top 30% this semester (honestly, not that bad), it still takes me out of contention for transferring.

Then I think to myself "oh well, i went to this school to be a lawyer and if I can't transfer, its not that bad of a school." Then I realize, as you said, I would be out of contention for law review and any shot at biglaw at OCI here would too be gone.

So I just tell myself to relax and hope I at least get into GULC EA and can quit the anxiety attacks. But still, if I falter here this semester, I have to explain to employers at GULC OCI why I was only top 25% at a T2.

Oh, then I start worrying about even if I do get the grades - our class rank doesn't come out until July. Plus I am PT and the credit requirement will be weird with certain schools. How will I explain to each school that class ranks won't be out until long after some of their deadlines?



Ok. Rant over. In every school across the US there is a top 10% at the end of the year. I am guessing that 9% of that top 10% were in the top 10% after the first semester. Ive never even seen a TLS story of someone that was top 5-10% and fell the next semester. While I am sure there is - lets all calm down. We are smart. Or at least exam-savvy. We did it once, why can't we do it again. Shouldn't it be easier now that the unknowns of law exams are gone? Lets all take a few deep breaths and get back to the E&E's, Legal Writing assignments, hornbooks, beers, videogames, or whatever. In the words of a man named Bob, "everything gonna be alright...everythings gonna be all right." Come mid-July, we will all be where we belong

(HOLY SHIT THIS WAS LONG)

LOL, I've also been thinking about the bolded, those EXACT thoughts, haha.

[apper123]

+1 to pretty much everything in this thread

[UCLAtransfer]

I went through this exact paranoia last year around this time. I'm pretty sure its all I thought about for a good three months.

If you wanted to keep this as a venting-only thread with no "silver lining" discussion, I apologize in advance for being optimistic, haha:

Looking back on the last three semesters of law school for me, I have done a little bit better each semester, even after transferring. I think if you do as well as it seems you folks did after first semester (top 10%, 5%, 1%, etc.), it means that you just "get" law school exams. Not to say you don't have to keep working at it to maintain that edge, but from my close group of friends who were all top 5-10% after 1L, there is a lot of inherent ability there that many others just don't have.

All that to say, keep up the hard work as best you can and I'm confident you will end up being pleasantly surprised.

[stinger35]

I went through this exact paranoia last year around this time. I'm pretty sure its all I thought about for a good three months.

If you wanted to keep this as a venting-only thread with no "silver lining" discussion, I apologize in advance for being optimistic, haha:

Looking back on the last three semesters of law school for me, I have done a little bit better each semester, even after transferring. I think if you do as well as it seems you folks did after first semester (top 10%, 5%, 1%, etc.), it means that you just "get" law school exams. Not to say you don't have to keep working at it to maintain that edge, but from my close group of friends who were all top 5-10% after 1L, there is a lot of inherent ability there that many others just don't have.

All that to say, keep up the hard work as best you can and I'm confident you will end up being pleasantly surprised.

No need to apologize, I think we are all looking for optimism and some assurance that we aren't going to screw it all up. Congrats on UCLA though. Hopefully you are right and those of us freaking out will have the same success.

[A'nold]

I went through this exact paranoia last year around this time. I'm pretty sure its all I thought about for a good three months.

If you wanted to keep this as a venting-only thread with no "silver lining" discussion, I apologize in advance for being optimistic, haha:

Looking back on the last three semesters of law school for me, I have done a little bit better each semester, even after transferring. I think if you do as well as it seems you folks did after first semester (top 10%, 5%, 1%, etc.), it means that you just "get" law school exams. Not to say you don't have to keep working at it to maintain that edge, but from my close group of friends who were all top 5-10% after 1L, there is a lot of inherent ability there that many others just don't have.

All that to say, keep up the hard work as best you can and I'm confident you will end up being pleasantly surprised.

Great post and I also congratulate you on your successful transfer to UCLA. Do you think you could add how you did on that whole transfer thread where no one will give specifics? Or you could do it here, if you feel comfortable.

[Bankhead]

I thought paranoia was an irrational fear. Fear of regressing toward the median in a competitive atmosphere where the grading is largely subjective and everyone is clustered in tight deviations sounds pretty rational to me.

[nahgems]

More fears:
1. That because I'm at a TTTT it won't matter how well I do. No fabulous school will accept me regardless. Alternately, someone will accept me. Then I will have to choose between more debt than I can imagine or DOOOOOOOOOOOOMing my job prospects by graduating from my TTTT.
2. Friends from my old school will resent/hate me if I transfer. Potential friends from my new school will scoff at me because I come from a TTTT and clearly inferior to them. Networking is an important part of law school and I will have killed all networking chances I had at either school. With no support system, I will end up with a temp job that pays $10 / hour. Interest from my student loan debt will accumulate at obscene rates. I will not have enough money for puppy food. My puppies will starve to death slowly and painfully.
3. I will crash and burn if I transfer because competition at the new school will be significantly tougher than it was at my old school. I will graduate at the bottom of my new class (or possibly fail out and not graduate at all). The shame will cause me to stop leaving my apartment. I will eventually die alone and afraid and be eaten by my dogs.
4. I will kill my chances at law review by transferring and then it won't matter that I am going to a better school. I will be consumed with debt and end up homeless and mumbling incoherently about suject matter jurisdiction to random strangers on the street.
5. Clowns. Whether I transfer or not, clowns are terrifying.

[A'nold]

More fears:
1. That because I'm at a TTTT it won't matter how well I do. No fabulous school will accept me regardless. Alternately, someone will accept me, and then I will have to choose between more debt than I can imagine or DOOOOOOOOOOOOMing my job prospects by graduating from my TTTT.
2. Friends from my old school will resent/hate me if I transfer. Potential friends from my new school will scoff at me because I come from a TTTT. Networking is an important part of law school and I will have killed all networking chances. I will end up with a temp job that pays $10 / hour. Interest from my student loan debt will accumulate at obscene rates. I will not have enough money for puppy food. My puppies will starve to death slowly and painfully.
3. I will crash and burn if I transfer because competition at the new school will be significantly tougher. I will graduate at the bottom of my new class (or possibly fail out and not graduate at all). The shame will cause me to stop leaving my apartment. I will eventually die alone and afraid and be eaten by my dogs.
4. I will kill my chances at law review by transferring and then it won't matter that I am going to a better school. I will be consumed with debt and end up homeless and mumbling incoherently about suject matter jurisdiction to random strangers on the street.
5. Clowns. Whether I transfer or not, clowns are terrifying.

1, 2, and 5 are all valid. I don't think 3 would happen, especially as much of the anecdotal evidence on this site says otherwise. Although, you could at least feed your dogs for awhile under 3, thus buying them more time to escape, jump your fence, and start a dog gang whereby they rule the block using fear to eat more food. I think they'd be o.k.

[nahgems]

1, 2, and 5 are all valid. I don't think 3 would happen, especially as much of the anecdotal evidence on this site says otherwise. Although, you could at least feed your dogs for awhile under 3, thus buying them more time to escape, jump your fence, and start a dog gang whereby they rule the block using fear to eat more food. I think they'd be o.k.

<----- RJ requires a *lot* of puppy food. And, while he is an impressive 96 lbs, he is terrified of lightning, vacuum cleaners, airplanes and those trucks that sweep the streets. I question his ability to function as leader as a street gang.

[2009 Prospective]

More fears:
1. That because I'm at a TTTT it won't matter how well I do. No fabulous school will accept me regardless. Alternately, someone will accept me. Then I will have to choose between more debt than I can imagine or DOOOOOOOOOOOOMing my job prospects by graduating from my TTTT.
2. Friends from my old school will resent/hate me if I transfer. Potential friends from my new school will scoff at me because I come from a TTTT and clearly inferior to them. Networking is an important part of law school and I will have killed all networking chances I had at either school. With no support system, I will end up with a temp job that pays $10 / hour. Interest from my student loan debt will accumulate at obscene rates. I will not have enough money for puppy food. My puppies will starve to death slowly and painfully.
3. I will crash and burn if I transfer because competition at the new school will be significantly tougher than it was at my old school. I will graduate at the bottom of my new class (or possibly fail out and not graduate at all). The shame will cause me to stop leaving my apartment. I will eventually die alone and afraid and be eaten by my dogs.
4. I will kill my chances at law review by transferring and then it won't matter that I am going to a better school. I will be consumed with debt and end up homeless and mumbling incoherently about suject matter jurisdiction to random strangers on the street.
5. Clowns. Whether I transfer or not, clowns are terrifying.

To your 2nd point- Biglaw doc review temps typically make around $35-60 / hour I think if I'm not mistaken, sometimes with OT. In good times, doc reviewers can actually make decent money if their cards fall right (some into six figures). The downsides of course are mindless work, uncertain job security and usually few to no benefits.

[nahgems]

To your 2nd point- Biglaw doc review temps typically make around $35-60 / hour I think if I'm not mistaken, sometimes with OT. In good times, doc reviewers can actually make decent money if their cards fall right (some into six figures). The downsides of course are mindless work, uncertain job security and usually few to no benefits.

Yeah. This is why I posted in the "paranoia" thread. I realize my fears aren't entirely justified. I'm a PT student and make a decent salary now as a statistical programmer. Even if I did accrue massive loans and couldn't find a swanky lawyer job, I could keep my current job amd pay off the massive loans. My puppies wouldn't starve.

Yet I have a very vivid mental image of my puppies slowly starving to death. Also, I'm horrible at mindnumbing work. I'd probably literally go crazy. That would lead to carelessness. Then I'd get fired for making stupid mistakes (reinforcing the Big Law opinions that all people from TTTTs are stupid). And THEN my puppies would either slowly starve to death or start a street gang...

[whereisirene]

This is my first TLS posting. I fully empathize with your situation, may be feeling more miserable than ever.

After I got 4.0 last semester, I thought I was actually doing something right. Now realizing that I wasn't shit after all. Law school is a funny place. Every single time you feel little better about yourself, law school just puts you down right away.
I have no idea why, but my writing professor, assistant attorney general at my state, doesn't seem to like my writing, and gave me a C+. He gave me a comment that was exactly opposite from my past two legal writing professor.
In addition, this week, I suffered from flu plus bronchitas, not allowing me to study or go to the school.

Geez, life is getting crazy, and I don't know what to do, especially with the 2 midterms and 20 pages appellate briefs due next week. Am I the only one here?

[legends159]

humility is a good character-trait to have, especially as an aspiring attorney. However you guys should really have more faith in yourselves. It's really hard to be lucky on all your exams.

[A'nold]

This is my first TLS posting. I fully empathize with your situation, may be feeling more miserable than ever.

After I got 4.0 last semester, I thought I was actually doing something right. Now realizing that I wasn't shit after all. Law school is a funny place. Every single time you feel little better about yourself, law school just puts you down right away.
I have no idea why, but my writing professor, assistant attorney general at my state, doesn't seem to like my writing, and gave me a C+. He gave me a comment that was exactly opposite from my past two legal writing professor.
In addition, this week, I suffered from flu plus bronchitas, not allowing me to study or go to the school.

Geez, life is getting crazy, and I don't know what to do, especially with the 2 midterms and 20 pages appellate briefs due next week. Am I the only one here?

It can also work the other way. I was feeling so freaking down about my legal writing and got the highest grade in the class on my last memo. I nearly had a heart attack I was so surprised. I think you'll be good in your normal classes and chin up on that flu business, you are obviously smart enough that you'll nail exams again.

Wait.....this is the paranoia thread, not the care bear rainbow thread.

Edit: Yeah legends, that is good advice, but we are obviously hopeless worriers, haha.

[phishskier41]

I am feeling the same way a little nervous that I won't do as well this semester, especially when I found out that my GPA was actually a little bit higher than I originally thought. I went into the Deans office today to make sure that my certification was sent to GTown, it was one of the worst feelings talking to one of the deans and the office employees. Oh well, I'm sure it will all be worth it.

[A'nold]

I am feeling the same way a little nervous that I won't do as well this semester, especially when I found out that my GPA was actually a little bit higher than I originally thought. I went into the Deans office today to make sure that my certification was sent to GTown, it was one of the worst feelings talking to one of the deans and the office employees. Oh well, I'm sure it will all be worth it.

Let me guess, you are the #1 student at UCLA?

Yeah, it was freaking awkward, that's for sure.

[UCLAtransfer]

I went through this exact paranoia last year around this time. I'm pretty sure its all I thought about for a good three months.

If you wanted to keep this as a venting-only thread with no "silver lining" discussion, I apologize in advance for being optimistic, haha:

Looking back on the last three semesters of law school for me, I have done a little bit better each semester, even after transferring. I think if you do as well as it seems you folks did after first semester (top 10%, 5%, 1%, etc.), it means that you just "get" law school exams. Not to say you don't have to keep working at it to maintain that edge, but from my close group of friends who were all top 5-10% after 1L, there is a lot of inherent ability there that many others just don't have.

All that to say, keep up the hard work as best you can and I'm confident you will end up being pleasantly surprised.

Great post and I also congratulate you on your successful transfer to UCLA. Do you think you could add how you did on that whole transfer thread where no one will give specifics? Or you could do it here, if you feel comfortable.

Yeah, glad to help. I transferred almost entirely for location (wanted to get back out to the West (Best) Coast where I am from), and a little bit for the prestige/better opportunities.

As with many other TLS transfers, I struck out at OCI. I would say for UCLA in general it was pretty close to the 50/50 point that some other posters have discussed in other threads. (About half the transfers I know received at least 1 offer, and the other half got nothing.)

I can't speak to everyone else's situation obviously, but I think my lack of success came down to two key reasons:

(1) I ended up with too many interviews with really highly-ranked firms. (V10-V25.) This was partially just luck of the draw and partially my own fault. The part that was luck of the draw was the phenomenon that others have described, where people bid low or not at all on the most competitive, highly-ranked firms. While I only bid high on 1 such firm that I had a bit of a connection to, I ended up with a lot of interviews with these firms since a lot of people simply didn't bid on them at all. The part that was my fault was bidding on these firms at all. I looked at a list of the firms that had taken the most UCLA transfers over the previous 5 years, and made sure to at least place a bid on them (however low). This resulted in me getting about 75% of my interviews with "reach" and "not a chance" firms.

(2) I transferred from a T2 on the East Coast that just didn't have much of a presence or name-recognition out West, so I think that I was somewhat of an "unknown" for the firms I was interviewing with. Many of the transfers who came from schools like Loyola, USD, Hastings, Davis, SCU, etc. ended up doing a little bit better because I think interviewers knew what the grades from those schools meant, having recruited from there (in better years).

Together, I think these two problems led to the perfect storm of me striking out at fall-OCI.

With all of that said, however, all is not lost for me. I ended up getting an offer from a mid-sized firm in LA that I am very excited about, and while it doesn't quite pay big law salary, its close. Also, I feel that I won't have to worry about getting no-offered at the end, since this firm didn't do any of the 30%, 50% offer rate stuff that big firms did last summer.

Overall, since my goals were to get back out to LA, attend a school that I enjoy more, and find a job that I think I will really like, I still consider transferring a success.

Feel free to question away!

[A'nold]

Great story. It's nice to hear about possibilities in midlaw, though the consensus is that they don't exist, haha.

Congrats on that and thanks for the info. Did you apply to any other schools and were you in the top 5% at your school? Thanks.

[UCLAtransfer]

Great story. It's nice to hear about possibilities in midlaw, though the consensus is that they don't exist, haha.

Congrats on that and thanks for the info. Did you apply to any other schools and were you in the top 5% at your school? Thanks.

I got a lot of great info on here over the last couple of years, so I'm glad to give back.

I was actually right outside the top 10% of my mid T2 on the east coast. I only applied to Georgetown and CA schools- UCLA, USC, Berk, Hastings, and Davis. Got in everywhere except USC (they only take a handful of transfers), Berk, and Davis (oddly enough).

[Bankhead]

UCLA transfer, did you do GULC ED?

[UCLAtransfer]

UCLA transfer, did you do GULC ED?

I did not do ED at GULC because my first semester grades were not nearly good enough to make the cut. I ended up killing it second semester which put me right outside top 10% and in a much better position to transfer.

[A'nold]

Great story. It's nice to hear about possibilities in midlaw, though the consensus is that they don't exist, haha.

Congrats on that and thanks for the info. Did you apply to any other schools and were you in the top 5% at your school? Thanks.

I got a lot of great info on here over the last couple of years, so I'm glad to give back.

I was actually right outside the top 10% of my mid T2 on the east coast. I only applied to Georgetown and CA schools- UCLA, USC, Berk, Hastings, and Davis. Got in everywhere except USC (they only take a handful of transfers), Berk, and Davis (oddly enough).

Thanks! Would you say that out-of-state tuition at UCLA is worth it, even with the tuition increases?

[UCLAtransfer]

Great story. It's nice to hear about possibilities in midlaw, though the consensus is that they don't exist, haha.

Congrats on that and thanks for the info. Did you apply to any other schools and were you in the top 5% at your school? Thanks.

I got a lot of great info on here over the last couple of years, so I'm glad to give back.

I was actually right outside the top 10% of my mid T2 on the east coast. I only applied to Georgetown and CA schools- UCLA, USC, Berk, Hastings, and Davis. Got in everywhere except USC (they only take a handful of transfers), Berk, and Davis (oddly enough).

Thanks! Would you say that out-of-state tuition at UCLA is worth it, even with the tuition increases?

For me, with my goals (So Cal, not biglaw or death), I would say it is absolutely worth it. It definitely depends on your situation, and how debt-adverse you are, but I have still found UCLA to be an incredible school and I am very glad I transferred.

For me it was especially worth it though because: (1) I had a generous scholarship my first year, so I took out next to nothing in loans; (2) I will get in state tuition for next year; and (3) my SO is working full-time so I don't have to take out much for COL. So even with the transfer I will end up with lower than average debt.

Definitely let me know if you have any other questions, and keep us updated on your transfer cycle!!!