Cooley transfer, just achieved a 3.5+ GPA at a T25 taking ?s Forum

[slacker]

What was your LSAT score and undergrad gpa?
Why Cooley assuming you had other options?

[Woozy]

If I'm reading right, you had a 4.0 after the first semester and 3.6+ after the first year at Cooley. Why the big drop?

[blackdragons]

To OP:
What is job opportunity at your new school looks like? is there any anti-transfer incident or "story" that you have heard? Hows other transfer doing on their OCI ( of course, I asked speculative questions, but just wish to gather as much info as possible).

[Mox]

What was your LSAT score and undergrad gpa?
Why Cooley assuming you had other options?

LSAT= mid 150's
UGPA= 3.0, I had a sub par year academically when I was a sophomore.

I guess my school of thought was that I could have been accepted at other tier 3's and 4's, but with the generous scholarship I was offered at Cooley I didn't think it was worth paying all that extra money. I figured if I don't do too well and I'm not afforded the opportunity to transfer up at least I'm not 150,000 in debt.

[Mox]

If I'm reading right, you had a 4.0 after the first semester and 3.6+ after the first year at Cooley. Why the big drop?

I slacked off a little bit in a few classes.

[Mox]

To OP:
What is job opportunity at your new school looks like? is there any anti-transfer incident or "story" that you have heard? Hows other transfer doing on their OCI ( of course, I asked speculative questions, but just wish to gather as much info as possible).

Most transfer have nothing lined up. OCI was pretty bad for us, and bad for the entire school in general. Some of the other kids that transfered wanted to wait until after they received their first semester grades before they start shooting out applications. As for me I have a few connections I plan on using and hopefully things work out.

[crockwell]

OP: I have a 3.5 after my 1st semester at Cooley, so I could have the same GPA on my transfer apps as you did. Any info on schools you applied to for transfer and the results would be appreciated. PM if you don't want to post it. Also anyone with any insight on transferring to NY schools would be greatly appreciated.

[blackdragons]

To OP:
What is job opportunity at your new school looks like? is there any anti-transfer incident or "story" that you have heard? Hows other transfer doing on their OCI ( of course, I asked speculative questions, but just wish to gather as much info as possible).

Most transfer have nothing lined up. OCI was pretty bad for us, and bad for the entire school in general. However, one of my buddies did land a good job and I was happy for him. Some of the other kids that transfered wanted to wait until after they received their first semester grades before they start shooting out applications. As for me I have a few connections I plan on using and hopefully things work out.

Sounds similar from what I been told. I am debating about to transfer or not as well. Anyways, thanks for the info and good luck for the job hunt.

[thexfactor]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

[ResolutePear]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

I thought Florida Coastal was worse.

[blackdragons]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

Hmm, what about T2 regional school? I have been observed the forum for a while, it seems like sometimes people decline the T20 school offer and stayed. My situation is a bit different, paying the sticker at the current school. hence, if I am going to transfer out, there is not much I will give up in terms of the tuition difference (Compare to the people who had the scholarship). ( indeed, I will give up other stuff, like connection, and my current school had a relatively strong reputation within the region, but most of the students tend to getting a public interest job upon graduation because they located at the secondary/third tier market)
so, is it worth to transfer?

[XxSpyKEx]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

Hmm, what about T2 regional school? I have been observed the forum for a while, it seems like sometimes people decline the T20 school offer and stayed. My situation is a bit different, paying the sticker at the current school. hence, if I am going to transfer out, there is not much I will give up in terms of the tuition difference (Compare to the people who had the scholarship). ( indeed, I will give up other stuff, like connection, and my current school had a relatively strong reputation within the region, but most of the students tend to getting a public interest job upon graduation because they located at the secondary/third tier market)
so, is it worth to transfer?

I've heard TTTs are typically receptive to scholarship negotiations after 1L years based on what schools you were accepted to, so you might get a fairly large scholarship to stick around (depending on where you get in and your class rank).

[Mox]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

When you say 1% chance are you alluding only to big law? I feel that moving from a tier 3 or 4 to a tier 1(outside of the top 14), doesn't put you in a situation where big law is a feasible possibility ITE; however, as a result I think you'll have a much greater shot at government work, mid-level firms, and small firms. At least you will have something. If you have an opportunity to make the jump from a lower tier to a top tier I would advise you do so.

[thexfactor]

the way i see it is if you stay at cooley you will have no options... at least transferring to a t25 or t50 you will have a 1% chance.

Law is really prestige driven. you dont want to graduate from the worst of the worst aka coolie cooley law school.

When you say 1% chance are you alluding only to big law? I feel that moving from a tier 3 or 4 to a tier 1(outside of the top 14), doesn't put you in a situation where big law is a feasible possibility ITE; however, as a result I think you'll have a much greater shot at government work, mid-level firms, and small firms. At least you will have something. If you have an opportunity to make the jump from a lower tier to a top tier I would advise you do so.

sorry i was exaggerating.. at my t30, only about 10-15% of transfers got a good job.

[crockwell]

I'm not sure how many schools do this, but I know Michigan will not reveal to employers that students have transfered for OCI. In that case a transfer student has the same odds as any other student. So whether you transferred from a T4 or you're at the top of the class, the playing field is level for OCI.

[XxSpyKEx]

I'm not sure how many schools do this, but I know Michigan will not reveal to employers that students have transfered for OCI. In that case a transfer student has the same odds as any other student. So whether you transferred from a T4 or you're at the top of the class, the playing field is level for OCI.

Regardless of the what school does, you have to put your old school on your resume until after you graduate from the transfer school. If you think about it, it would be really weird not to have that old school on your resume at all, particularly during OCI, because firms are going to wonder why you have no grades at all.

Although, a hiring partner told me about how one student he hired got a little clever about how he listed his old school when applying to the firm as a 3L*. I guess the guy put in "completed first year ciruculum at [XYZ TTT30]" as a bullet point under the new school, along with everything else that was there (i.e. moot court, journal, etc). The partner said he hadn't even realized the guy was a transfer student until after everything was done and the guy was hired, lol. But, that really wouldn't work as well for 2L OCI because employers want to see your transcript and you would have no grades by 2L OCI.

*Just to be clear, so people don't misread this as there is a realistic shot at getting biglaw as a 3L, I'll mention the student was top 1% at UChi (at the beginning of 3L year), on law review, and had a US court of appeals clerkship lined up for the year after graduation.

[dr123]

Why exactly would an employer care if someone started at a T4 if they finished at a T14? In my eyes, I'm more impressed with T4 to T14 transfers than people who get into a T14 right of the bat

[transplantedbuckeye]

I
Although, a hiring partner told me about how one student he hired got a little clever about how he listed his old school when applying to the firm as a 3L*. I guess the guy put in "completed first year ciruculum at [XYZ TTT30]" as a bullet point under the new school, along with everything else that was there (i.e. moot court, journal, etc).

This is completely acceptable and is in the career services handbook at my school on one possible way of representing your old school on your resume.

[XxSpyKEx]

I
Although, a hiring partner told me about how one student he hired got a little clever about how he listed his old school when applying to the firm as a 3L*. I guess the guy put in "completed first year ciruculum at [XYZ TTT30]" as a bullet point under the new school, along with everything else that was there (i.e. moot court, journal, etc).

This is completely acceptable and is in the career services handbook at my school on one possible way of representing your old school on your resume.

Not sure this would be a good way to list your old school for 2L OCI. You are going to want to list things like your grades, awards you got, etc on your resume (otherwise you are just going to have 2 lines for your new school and degree, and then 1 bullet point for your old school since you won't have anything else at the new school prior to even beginning school there).

Why exactly would an employer care if someone started at a T4 if they finished at a T14? In my eyes, I'm more impressed with T4 to T14 transfers than people who get into a T14 right of the bat

Because employers don't know how to evaluate the t4 transfers relative to the t14 class. They can see you did well at your old school, but they don't hire at your old school (not even at the top of the t4 nowadays). So it's easier just to not hire any t4 transfers than try to figure out how to evaluate them (after all, there are 1000+ other applications they can easily pick from). IMO, the practice is kind of dumb because very often transfers that make that kind of jump continue their success at the new school, so it's dumb to just assume that they aren't good enough for the position, when top 1/3 at the t14 is.

[concurrent fork]

Isn't 3.5 barely above median at some T30s?

[transplantedbuckeye]

I
Although, a hiring partner told me about how one student he hired got a little clever about how he listed his old school when applying to the firm as a 3L*. I guess the guy put in "completed first year ciruculum at [XYZ TTT30]" as a bullet point under the new school, along with everything else that was there (i.e. moot court, journal, etc).

This is completely acceptable and is in the career services handbook at my school on one possible way of representing your old school on your resume.

Not sure this would be a good way to list your old school for 2L OCI. You are going to want to list things like your grades, awards you got, etc on your resume (otherwise you are just going to have 2 lines for your new school and degree, and then 1 bullet point for your old school since you won't have anything else at the new school prior to even beginning school there).

I was more trying to convey that people should not be discouraged from doing this based on some random internet anecdote, as it is an acceptable practice. It is merely ONE way to do it, whether it is a good idea is up to the individual.

Very good points on the benefits of not doing it for OCI purposes though. Eventually, you want to start highlighting your current school more than your old one though.

[sethc]

FIRST - @OP:

To save you time/energy & first/foremost: I sent you a PM. I'm hoping you have time to respond because it contains questions about transferring that I would prefer to remain private. If you're not up for responding via PM, I'll ask here no problem - just say so.

You get a full, unqualified, well-deserved tip of the cap from me for about 1000 reasons. I think this is 1 of the few threads on TLS that extend for 2+ pages I have read in its entirety from thread 1 to the end. I may or may not have read some of your posts in the past [can't remember] but from this thread alone I can get a pulse on what type of attitude you have on (a) law school + (b) career + (c) life. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to have a genuine and unwaivering passion for at least LEARNING the law, but probably more along the lines of actually being a lawyer - a trait, if accurate, I definitely share with you. From my experience & background, everything you've said = realistic, practical, and truthful. I'm not sure whether we'll ever cross-paths beyond an internet forum, but I think you're an awesome dude. Having said that, my post-history will probably show that I am adamant on transferring from my shitty T4 (1L, 2nd term) to somewhere else with the aim of being in or at least as close as possible to my home-state (KY for me and VA for you, interesting to note fwiw). My previous TLS posts also show that I am an adamant defender of Cooley (or anything sub-T1) and those who want/need to consider Cooley and especially if they are doing so with a predisposition of transferring as soon as possible. We have a lot of common ground that I want to discuss, if possible.

FUCKING SOAPBOX RANT ABOUT TLS IN GENERAL AND NOT AIMED AT ANYONE SPECIFIC :

Those who find one of these disgusting/pathetic: consider yourself to have been put on notice, if you've read this far.

I mean this as respectfully as one possibly can, but, half of the replies in this thread directed @ the OP are downright astonishing, if not pathetic. I'm cool with testing to waters to make sure the OP's thread isn't a Cooley flame or any other type of flame. Verifying his honesty by way of asking a few questions is nothing short of acceptable. This is especially so with threads surrounding Cooley. I get that most of TLS would love to shit on anything or anyone associated with Cooley - both figuratively and literally - and the same goes for any other T3 or T4.. hell I've seen even T2's get this treatment. I also understand this an internet forum that shouldn't be taken so seriously by everyone.. and that's fine. But it is senseless to automatically presume anyone is lying on TLS other than places/threads that are Off-Topic. The venom and skepticism and, honestly, arrogance that the average poster has to sift through is astounding given the fact that most that do this sort of thing are holding themselves out to someday be an attorney--someone that helps and advises people. Am I the only one on here that finds this completely paradoxical or hypocritical? Sure, every post doesn't doesn't deserve unwarranted & genuine advice by any means.. but if it's even remotely debatable, why the need to be an asshole? Law school is very serious shit in just about every aspect and when someone IS CURRENTLY or IS CONSIDERING the many burdens that are inherent to matriculating *any* law school. Even if someone doesn't understand any/most/all of them completely, that doesn't mean they are undeserving of common goddamn decency and respect. I will not hesitate to admit that a ton of the people I'm speaking to are incredibly brilliant people and most assuredly more intelligent than me - no question. But, if those people treat people they meet in public in the same manner they treat people on here with the ludicrous presumptions I've seen so much of then I DO have serious doubts about how they will treat potential clients. Moreover, I understand, too, that often these "venom-posts" are facetious and are just meant as a friendly joke thus it's nothing personal.. but I feel like that most people that are asking genuine questions do not share that understanding especially with respect to those that are new to the forum or new to the idea of law school. I haven't lurked/posted in the 0L areas in a long time, so maybe that area has calmed down with regard to what I'm talking to since I participated over there. But, I have my doubts, however I can almost understand some of it simply because I think the general public has a poor understanding of law & law school in just about any capacity. That doesn't make them any less deserving of advice and help. Being a lawyer is a big dream for a lot of disenfranchised people no matter the age group. This kind of bullshit can really dissuade anyone from giving it a try, which, some people feel is the way it should be because "they're saving them time/effort/$/etc." and if that's anyone's rationale then I am fine with agreeing to disagree - it's just not my outlook. I think everyone deserves a fair chance and Cooley, among many other T3 + T4s offer that. It comes at a great cost, granted, but as long as someone knows that before going in or is AT LEAST SOMEWHAT AWARE OF IT -- why shouldn't they get a serious crack at a career in law? I.e. a fair chance. Isn't that one of the underlying premises for the constitutional right to defending a criminal action and other similar rights inherent in the US Constitution? I really do apologize for being so damn deep and serious here, I don't mean to do that because it's fucking dumb to take it this far on an internet forum - but a lot of shit really resonated with me and, well, the internet in general is a good place to rant, I guess heh. I just type how I speak and, absent my specific tone/dialect/demeanor etc., then this comes off as going off the deep end.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off specifically - it was general rant and only that. I hope it helps many that might lurk/post, but if it helps only 1 then I'm satisfied. Oh, also, sincere thanks to anyone that actually took the time to read any/all/most/some of this and think about it, regardless of your reaction/thoughts.

Also, GO PACKERS!

[vanwinkle]

TL;DR.

And that's coming from me, dude.

[patrickd139]

TL;DR.

And that's coming from me, dude.

Allow me to paraphrase...

FIRST - @OP:
You're really cool. I'm really cool. Let's be friends.

FUCKING SOAPBOX RANT ABOUT TLS IN GENERAL AND NOT AIMED AT ANYONE SPECIFIC : (i.e. you're all guilty)

If you think I'm not cool, you're on notice...

You're all pathetic. Don't be mean on the internet, it's not nice . . . TLS is not a nice place and it makes me sadface . . . Something about the general public's understanding about law and how it's lots o' peoples' dream . . . Cooley gives everyone a chance to go to law school (which I can only infer OP thinks is everyone's birthright). HERE'S WHERE OP ALLUDES TO A LAW DEGREE AS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT . . . Apologetically wraps up for bearing soul on interwebs.

Edited for ambiguity.

[ResolutePear]

TL;DR.

And that's coming from me, dude.

Allow me to paraphrase...

FIRST - @OP:
You're really cool. I'm really cool. Let's be friends.

FUCKING SOAPBOX RANT ABOUT TLS IN GENERAL AND NOT AIMED AT ANYONE SPECIFIC : (i.e. you're all guilty)

If you think I'm not cool, you're on notice...

You're all pathetic. Don't be mean on the internet, it's not nice . . . TLS is not a nice place and it makes me sadface . . . Something about the general public's understanding about law and how it's lots o' peoples' dream . . . Cooley gives everyone a chance to go to law school (which I can only infer OP thinks is everyone's birthright). HERE'S WHERE OP ALLUDES TO A LAW DEGREE AS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT . . . Apologetically wraps up for bearing soul on interwebs.

Edited for ambiguity.

Without lawyers, we would have Utopia.

Therefore, a high concentration of lawyers and prospective lawyers in one location...