Am I crazy for considering staying? UF vs. Harvard Forum

[rad lulz]

.

[rpupkin]

This is so obviously Harvard. 2 years from now, it will likely not have mattered which decision you made. 5-10 years from now, it could matter a great great deal. This is a prestige obsessed profession. You'd be foolish to stay at UF. And do you know whether or not Harvard will be giving you any need-based aid?

You have this completely backwards. If HLS would help the OP at all, it would be in acquiring an entry-level job immediately after graduation, when the "prestige" of one's law school matters the most. But as you acquire actual experience as a lawyer, where you went to law school matters progressively less.

In any event, the OP doesn't need the "national prestige" of Harvard because he is the #1 student at a decent school in the state in which he wants to practice. Although transferring to HLS would be a defensible choice, he would not "be foolish to stay at UF."

[rad lulz]

.

[heavoldgotjuice]

This is so obviously Harvard. 2 years from now, it will likely not have mattered which decision you made. 5-10 years from now, it could matter a great great deal. This is a prestige obsessed profession. You'd be foolish to stay at UF. And do you know whether or not Harvard will be giving you any need-based aid?

You have this completely backwards. If HLS would help the OP at all, it would be in acquiring an entry-level job immediately after graduation, when the "prestige" of one's law school matters the most. But as you acquire actual experience as a lawyer, where you went to law school matters progressively less.

In any event, the OP doesn't need the "national prestige" of Harvard because he is the #1 student at a decent school in the state in which he wants to practice. Although transferring to HLS would be a defensible choice, he would not "be foolish to stay at UF."

This. Five or 10 years from now, no one is going to give a shit that he went to Harvard.

idk ... if someone told me they went to UF and another person told me they went to Harvard, I would look at the person that went to Harvard in a better light.

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

[mw115]

Stay in Florida.

I can only reiterate what other people have said, but if I was happy and wanted to practice in Florida I would stay. Also, from someone who is 5 years out, most people don't care where you went to law school anymore, at least in the south.

[lawhopeful10]

How much of a lock are you for the clerkship / job you want in Florida if you stay. I'm top 3%ish at UGA and am nervous as fuck of striking out at OCI which my career services people say happens to some people near the top each year. I didn't bother applying to transfer since my girlfriend is here and I'm mass mailing like crazy but even if you want Florida biglaw having at least NYC big law as a back up which I'm sure you would at H is something to think about.

[igo2northwestern]

Didn't OP say something about academia? I hear it's difficult to get at HLS, but at least it's feasible. And dang, I can't imagine the feeling dropping from that #1 UF spot and saying to myself: "I could have gone to Harvard".

It's not even really feasible from Harvard.

Really? I heard from a friend there about at least one person getting a professorship. Anyone have the year-to-year stats on this? Or 3-4 years out of law school?

[rpupkin]

idk ... if someone told me they went to UF and another person told me they went to Harvard, I would look at the person that went to Harvard in a better light.

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

Florida firms, government agencies, and judges will "give a shit" that OP was #1 at UF. But you--a first-year law student who knows nothing about the legal job market--look at Harvard grads in a better light.

If OP's goal is to get a blow job from heavoldgotjuice, he should transfer to HLS. But if his goal is to get a job in Florida while minimizing his debt, staying at UF seems sensible.

[ymmv]

Didn't OP say something about academia? I hear it's difficult to get at HLS, but at least it's feasible. And dang, I can't imagine the feeling dropping from that #1 UF spot and saying to myself: "I could have gone to Harvard".

It's not even really feasible from Harvard.

Really? I heard from a friend there about at least one person getting a professorship. Anyone have the year-to-year stats on this? Or 3-4 years out of law school?

The lack of irony I CAN'T EVEN.

[withoutapaddle]

http://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?t ... ode=search

Get on the plane

[heavoldgotjuice]

idk ... if someone told me they went to UF and another person told me they went to Harvard, I would look at the person that went to Harvard in a better light.

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

Florida firms, government agencies, and judges will "give a shit" that OP was #1 at UF. But you--a first-year law student who knows nothing about the legal job market--look at Harvard grads in a better light.

If OP's goal is to get a blow job from heavoldgotjuice, he should transfer to HLS. But if his goal is to get a job in Florida while minimizing his debt, staying at UF seems sensible.

Listen rpupkin, I might be a 2L, but you are a 0L ... so shut the fuck up. You took your LSAT 6 months ago ...

I took the LSAT on Saturday. Going into the test, I was very familiar with the rules. I knew that you could not bring a cell phone into the test center. And if I somehow had not known that rule when I walked into the room, I would've known it by the time the test started: the proctor reminded us about 10 times that we could not have cell phones.

I sincerely thought that I did not have my phone with me. I almost always put my phone in my pants pocket. But, for whatever reason (nerves?), I mindlessly put my phone in my jacket pocket while I was packing up my things in my car before hurrying over to the test center. When the proctor announced the "last chance" to turn in any phones, I checked my pants pockets but not my jacket pockets.

I took the first three sections of the test without incident. At the break, I walked outside. I put my hands in my jacket pocket (it was cold), and I realized that my phone had been in my pocket. I felt like an idiot. I didn't have time to make it back to my car, but I didn't want to bring the phone back in the test room with me, so I hid the phone in a bush about 50 feet from the building. When I was walking back, I saw a girl I know who was also taking the test. I don't know her well, but she's the girlfriend of a friend of mine. I told her about bringing the phone in with me and about how stupid I felt.

I went back inside and finished the second half of the test. When the proctor was collecting the tests, she told me that I had to stay behind. We waited for everyone to leave—it seemed like an eternity—and then she told me that another test taker had reported that I had used a cell phone during the first half of the test. I immediately told her what happened. She then asked me to show her where the phone was. I walked her over to the bush. I think it all looked very suspicious. She then confiscated the phone and told me that LSAC would investigate the incident.

I'm freaking out. I realized I screwed up, but I honestly did not cheat. By the way, I think the test went very well, and I really don't want to cancel my score. I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

[daleearnhardt123]

This is so obviously Harvard. 2 years from now, it will likely not have mattered which decision you made. 5-10 years from now, it could matter a great great deal. This is a prestige obsessed profession. You'd be foolish to stay at UF. And do you know whether or not Harvard will be giving you any need-based aid?

You have this completely backwards. If HLS would help the OP at all, it would be in acquiring an entry-level job immediately after graduation, when the "prestige" of one's law school matters the most. But as you acquire actual experience as a lawyer, where you went to law school matters progressively less.

In any event, the OP doesn't need the "national prestige" of Harvard because he is the #1 student at a decent school in the state in which he wants to practice. Although transferring to HLS would be a defensible choice, he would not "be foolish to stay at UF."

This. Five or 10 years from now, no one is going to give a shit that he went to Harvard.

Respectfully disagree with both of you and am also wondering how much you really know about the subject. What should be clear, though, is that the job OP will have upon graduation is very likely going to be the same regardless of H or UF. He will secure said job by getting an interview THIS fall during OCIs, and then SA-ing there next summer. Said firm will decide to extend him an SA offer based on 1L grades (this statement should be non-controversial). It won't mean shit if he attends Harvard's EIP vs. UF's OCI. He's going to be going in with UF 1L grades either way.

Now, lateral-ing in 5 years, moving to gov., trying to make partner, all of these things are where H may make a difference. Some may say a substantial difference. Further, 2 years of H will give him a network among fellow law students that he could never amass at UF. At UF, the fraction of students who will follow him down the career path he's likely to take is tiny. At Harvard, it's probably 80% of the class. Those people will be important down the line.


Edit: Only "respectfully" disagree with rad lulz. Upon realization that rpupkin is a 0L, I have no respect for his opinion on this subject.

[rpupkin]

Listen rpupkin, I might be a 2L, but you are a 0L ... so shut the fuck up. You took your LSAT 6 months ago ...

LOL. Dude, read the thread.

[heavoldgotjuice]

Listen rpupkin, I might be a 2L, but you are a 0L ... so shut the fuck up. You took your LSAT 6 months ago ...

LOL. Dude, read the thread.

Thread says:

Rpupkin, on December 9, 2013th (10:55 pm) made a thread called "Another Cheating LSAT Story", and wrote: I took the LSAT on Saturday.

/End

[heavoldgotjuice]

This is so obviously Harvard. 2 years from now, it will likely not have mattered which decision you made. 5-10 years from now, it could matter a great great deal. This is a prestige obsessed profession. You'd be foolish to stay at UF. And do you know whether or not Harvard will be giving you any need-based aid?

You have this completely backwards. If HLS would help the OP at all, it would be in acquiring an entry-level job immediately after graduation, when the "prestige" of one's law school matters the most. But as you acquire actual experience as a lawyer, where you went to law school matters progressively less.

In any event, the OP doesn't need the "national prestige" of Harvard because he is the #1 student at a decent school in the state in which he wants to practice. Although transferring to HLS would be a defensible choice, he would not "be foolish to stay at UF."

This. Five or 10 years from now, no one is going to give a shit that he went to Harvard.

Respectfully disagree with both of you and am also wondering how much you really know about the subject. What should be clear, though, is that the job OP will have upon graduation is very likely going to be the same regardless of H or UF. He will secure said job by getting an interview THIS fall during OCIs, and then SA-ing there next summer. Said firm will decide to extend him an SA offer based on 1L grades (this statement should be non-controversial). It won't mean shit if he attends Harvard's EIP vs. UF's OCI. He's going to be going in with UF 1L grades either way.

Now, lateral-ing in 5 years, moving to gov., trying to make partner, all of these things are where H may make a difference. Some may say a substantial difference. Further, 2 years of H will give him a network among fellow law students that he could never amass at UF. At UF, the fraction of students who will follow him down the career path he's likely to take is tiny. At Harvard, it's probably 80% of the class. Those people will be important down the line.

+1

[Sicsofs]

I do not mean to be the self-interested one of the bunch, but I think OP should stay at UF so his seat can be redistributed to someone that is not on the fence about what to do when The H comes calling. That someone mainly being ME. Good Luck OP. I met a very wealthy self-made man once that told me these words of advice when it comes to succeeding in life..."Either you got it, or you dont." You are gonna land fine whatever path you take. Oh and Heaveholdjustice that rebuttal was hilarious, see you at Gtown.

[mw115]

Respectfully disagree with both of you and am also wondering how much you really know about the subject. What should be clear, though, is that the job OP will have upon graduation is very likely going to be the same regardless of H or UF. He will secure said job by getting an interview THIS fall during OCIs, and then SA-ing there next summer. Said firm will decide to extend him an SA offer based on 1L grades (this statement should be non-controversial). It won't mean shit if he attends Harvard's EIP vs. UF's OCI. He's going to be going in with UF 1L grades either way.

Now, lateral-ing in 5 years, moving to gov., trying to make partner, all of these things are where H may make a difference. Some may say a substantial difference. Further, 2 years of H will give him a network among fellow law students that he could never amass at UF. At UF, the fraction of students who will follow him down the career path he's likely to take is tiny. At Harvard, it's probably 80% of the class. Those people will be important down the line.


Edit: Only "respectfully" disagree with rad lulz. Upon realization that rpupkin is a 0L, I have no respect for his opinion on this subject.

I'm going to strongly disagree. You know what makes a difference when becoming a partner? Your book. That's it. 100%. You could have gone to Texas Wesleyan, but if you can bring in business, you will make it. Will as many UF people be doing Big Law? Probably not. But a lot of the people you went to law school with will either become people or will know people in Florida who are valuable clients.

At Harvard he is making connections with people who are mostly working in Massachusetts, New York, California, or DC. I'll go out on a limb and say the average graduating class from Florida has more attorneys listed in Chambers, Best Lawyers, whatever, than Harvard does. Look, if you want to work in Florida, a lot more of your clients will be UF grads than Harvard grads, a lot more of the people making decisions about whether to hire you will be UF grads than Harvard grads. Going to Harvard might give you a small blind bump, but its not worth trading the connections you'll be making in Florida if that is where you want to practice.

Further, those connections will be nowhere as good. I can count on 2 hands the amount of transfers I remember, but I remember every single person from my 1L Section.

[rad lulz]

.

[Nomo]

Stay. You're happy where you are. You aren't going to live forever. Two years matters. Enjoy those two years.

You want to work in Florida, you're number 1 in your class. Transferring to Harvard isn't going to help you with that. You're already going to be able to work at any firm in Florida you want and/or clerk for a federal district or appellate judge. The only thing you gain is a little better access to the teaching market. But the teaching market is brutal and its hard to imagine it getting better. I wouldn't give up a place I like and 80k for that tiny shot at academia.

[mw115]

The network argument cuts both ways bc he'll have a small natl. network w UF but a huge local one

I can't agree with this enough. In Texas, going to Texas Law is more valuable than Harvard Law in terms of networking and connections. Not just is there the Texas network, if clients do look at schools (in my experience, most of them do not) they usually would prefer a UT grad to a Harvard grad.

[speedtracer]

http://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?t ... ode=search

Get on the plane

Why do you think I'd have an infant on my lap??

I really appreciate everyone's input. You guys are giving me so much to think about. Thank you!

[rpupkin]

Respectfully disagree with both of you and am also wondering how much you really know about the subject. What should be clear, though, is that the job OP will have upon graduation is very likely going to be the same regardless of H or UF. He will secure said job by getting an interview THIS fall during OCIs, and then SA-ing there next summer. Said firm will decide to extend him an SA offer based on 1L grades (this statement should be non-controversial). It won't mean shit if he attends Harvard's EIP vs. UF's OCI. He's going to be going in with UF 1L grades either way.

Now, lateral-ing in 5 years, moving to gov., trying to make partner, all of these things are where H may make a difference. Some may say a substantial difference. Further, 2 years of H will give him a network among fellow law students that he could never amass at UF. At UF, the fraction of students who will follow him down the career path he's likely to take is tiny. At Harvard, it's probably 80% of the class. Those people will be important down the line.


Edit: Only "respectfully" disagree with rad lulz. Upon realization that rpupkin is a 0L, I have no respect for his opinion on this subject.

I'm not a 0L. I graduated from law school two years ago, clerked for a year, and have worked at a firm for a year.

Others have addressed your points about lateraling, making partner, and building your network. I just wanted to add that HLS also won't necessarily help the OP if he later wants to move to a government job. If he's interested in a state government job in Florida, graduating from UF is not going to hurt him. If he wants to lateral to a federal government job, a clerkship is going to matter more than where he went to law school. And OP is in a great spot to land a federal clerkship. He's #1 in his class and is especially well-liked by profs at his school.

A lot of the things people go to HLS for—big law security, clerkship opportunities, government options—are already available to OP at his current school.

[toothbrush]

http://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?t ... ode=search

Get on the plane

Why do you think I'd have an infant on my lap??

I really appreciate everyone's input. You guys are giving me so much to think about. Thank you!

this is fucking awesome.

[rad lulz]

.

[speedtracer]

I'm trying to figure out how much to weigh as a pro for HLS the fact that they have a Cyber Law clinic. It sounds right up my alley, and like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure how much of a professional benefit it would be for me. At UF, none of our clinics even sort of relate to a field I'm interested in, so I've never really checked into the benefits of getting involved in a clinic