Accept Berkeley or Hold Out? Forum

[dixon02]

Not sure what everyone is jumping on OP for. I do think he should be listening to the advice that he ignore Berkeley's stupid demand to withdraw apps, but half this thread is completely useless shit about why it's called 'Berkeley' and how marvelously strange and odd that is. Frankly surprised mods haven't stepped in; I'd be annoyed too.

[Should I Transfer??]

It is obviously a stressful process, but op can just accept B and wait for the other schools decisions. He will have to make a decision eventually, but not yet. /thread

[TTTehehe]

ITT, OP asks for advice, doesn't like anyone's advice because everyone seems to agree to take Berkeley, thus OP thinks everyone sucks at giving advice.

On topic: wait until the last moment and take Berkeley. If it is not binding (which I am still confused about) leave open other apps and withdraw.

Again, I don't have predisposition one way or the other, but the advice to take Berkeley wasn't helpful. They were either comparing it to T2 (which I said right in the OP is irrelevant because Georgetown, not my T2, is my fallback), or not explaining it at all. But sure, go ahead and read an ulterior motive where there isn't one.



The last page of advice has been very useful. Thanks to recent posters for that. I'm going to ask for another extension and hope that I can get a Penn decision in by the deadline. If not, I'll accept and begin the LR competition to show my commitment. If I get a response from Penn/Mich within a few days, I'll let them know. If they want to let me go at that point, I'll feel much more comfortable reaching for Columbia with a Penn/Mich fallback.

Bold 1. OP, your original post stated that you'd prefer B over everything minus HSC. This is one reason, I assume, that everyone was saying take the B offer. Furthermore, the likelihood of being dinged at HSC, added with the withdraw from B, and the fall back of GULC (or the T2 as some read it), made B the safest, and most logical choice. Your two choice poll also made it seem like you wanted just simple responses, not essays on why B is a good choice, which is why berating people for not giving you an outline of their thought process is a bit irksome.

Bold 2. I'm puzzled. You originally said you prefer B over PM, and now they trump B if you get in? Totally your decision, and no need to explain the change. I think this is why some people believe you had a preference to withdraw, and wanted to use the thread to affirm your desire to push back on B and wait for HSC.

Either way, congrats on B, and good luck on the rest of your cycle. I hope you get what you want.

[Xferr]

Thanks to all those who offered helpful advice. Lots of it on the last couple pages. No thanks to those who offered a totally unreasoned opinion and got defensive when I explained that bare recommendations aren't useful.

Two massive developments today that totally change the terms of the decision:

1.) Extension from Berkeley to 7/16. This is the second extension they gave me.
2.) Admitted at Penn.

As a result of #1, I'm even less willing now to accept and then reneg. Anyway, the calculus for the decision is now:

(Berkeley - Penn) <=>? sum[NYU-Stanford](Chance of acceptance * value of acceptance) - $500.

If the left is greater than the right, I take Berkeley. If it's less, then I take Penn and see where the rest of my apps land. Considering that I'm not even sure IF Berkeley > Penn for me, I'm leaning towards 'wait and see.' On the 16th, I'll explain the situation to Berkeley. If they're willing to wait on me, great. If not, I'll probably withdraw.

@Teehee - if I got into either of them (which I did), then the risk of declining Berkeley lessens significantly, even if neither of them are better/preferable.

[Icculus]

Anyway, the calculus for the decision is now:

(Berkeley - Penn) <=>? sum[NYU-Stanford](Chance of acceptance * value of acceptance) - $500.

If the left is greater than the right, I take Berkeley. If it's less, then I take Penn and see where the rest of my apps land. Considering that I'm not even sure IF Berkeley > Penn for me, I'm leaning towards 'wait and see.'

Am I the only person who has no idea wtf this even means? I think I'm done with this thread. Good luck OP with whatever you decide to do. Just remember eventually you need to nut up and make A decision.

[dixon02]

I know the idea of Berkeley seems enticing (almost fell for it myself). But it's probably not practical for you. Your goal is to stay on the East Coast and preferably go to NYC. Penn has a pretty significant advantage over Berkeley in this regard. If Berkeley forces you to make a decision this Friday and you still haven't heard from Harvard or Columbia, you have to reject B and take P while you wait to hear. Even if you don't get in anywhere else, Penn is really the better option for you give your goals.

[KevinP]

I would choose Penn, even if I only had the options of Berkeley and Penn. You want East Coast (especially NYC), which is good because NYC is basically the only city with anything resembling a legal market that's hiring. At this point, I'd go say screw it to Berkeley and wait out on the rest of your apps, or go to Penn if no other acceptances materialize.

[yabuddy]

I know the idea of Berkeley seems enticing (almost fell for it myself). But it's probably not practical for you. Your goal is to stay on the East Coast and preferably go to NYC. Penn has a pretty significant advantage over Berkeley in this regard. If Berkeley forces you to make a decision this Friday and you still haven't heard from Harvard or Columbia, you have to reject B and take P while you wait to hear. Even if you don't get in anywhere else, Penn is really the better option for you give your goals.

I've heard that Berkeley is pretty good for NYC because most students there want to stay in Cali so they don't bid NYC very hard. And if NYC firms are trying to hire students from the top schools in the country wouldn't Berkeley give OP a decent shot at NYC? Especially if all Penn students are bidding NYC.

I'm sure Penn is better, but doesn't Berkeley give him a decent shot at NYC also?

[TTTehehe]

@Teehee - if I got into either of them (which I did), then the risk of declining Berkeley lessens significantly, even if neither of them are better/preferable.

Penn > Cal, especially for East Coast and NYC. I don't feel the need to elaborate on that point - Penn does quite well in NYC.

With that new development, withdrawing from Berkeley and using Penn as "backup" until hearing from HSC makes total sense. Not sure how it plays out in that nifty little formula that you developed, though.

[Certiorari]

(Berkeley - Penn) <=>? sum[NYU-Stanford](Chance of acceptance * value of acceptance) - $500.

You didn't tell us you were related to Learned Hand — that should really up your chances at H.

Just kidding (in good nature). Anyway, congrats on Penn; it's sounds like it'd be a great option for you, and, at least, it'll give you more options while you wait for the other schools to get back to you.

I'm glad Cal gave you the extension too; and yeah, I know the feeling — after that I really wouldn't want to renege after accepting if I was in your shoes.

Good luck!

[Xferr]

I put Berkeley > Penn for the following reasons:

1.) I've never lived in Cali. Law School is the last opportunity to do that somewhat risk free. I'm open enough to new experiences to accept that Cali might be better than NYC for me.
2.) Along that vein, I've never gone to Berkeley. I've gone to Penn.
3.) I have a hard time telling which would actually best place me on the East Coast. Berkeley has so much self-selection going on that it's hard to say what their success rate is. However, I hear that Berkeley transfers do extremely well at OCI. I'm missing info here about Penn, but I hope to get it within the week.

Of course, it's open to debate, so keep throwing info at me. Even if Penn isn't preferable to Berkeley, which it might be, at the very least the gap is smaller than I thought.

[Certiorari]

Well, since you've never been to Berkeley, I can tell you that the location is fabulous. It's a beautiful part of town. Very liberal (obviously), so if you lean that way, you'll fit in well. It's an older part of town, but not run down. It feels a lot like the village in ny or maybe old city in Phill, but not as built up (dense, just shorter buildings). Actually, the best way to describe it would be granola Brooklyn.

The weather is great, and getting around is easy. I really wanted to go there for undergrad, and I applied last year for law school. I didn't apply to transfer, though; I'm already out west, and part of the reason I'm transferring is to be near NYC. If there weren't personal reasons for wanting to be out east, I'd have applied to cal. I would absolutely love the area. If you like NYC, you'll like the bay area. I think you'll be happy wherever you end up, though.

[brose]

If I were in your shoes I'd chance it. Because Penn is not that far in your preferences below B, it's a risk I'd take for the Columbia payoff.

[Xferr]

I let Berkeley go today. I had to commit to law review, and I didn't want to start that headache for a school that I honestly likely wouldn't end up at. You guys did a good job of selling Penn, and the added chance to get into a handful of other schools puts the already close choice over the edge. Thanks to all who provided useful info.

Sorry Cert - you'll have to deal with me in Philly, despite your efforts to move me out west.