Chicago Transfer ED 2012 Forum

[mileslibertatis]

I wish you people would more forcefully direct my life. :p

[InnocuousDiatribe]

Any reason to NOT go ED as a top 1% at 50sish?

That's the range where HYS is plausible, but not terribly likely (because the school is too low-ranked). Tough call. At a 50ish, I'd go ahead and ED Chicago... but just be aware that if you get into Chicago and end up repeating your performance, you're going to "what-if" yourself for a long time, heh.

This is only an issue if you'd really prefer to go to HYS over Chicago. But I have a special affinity for the city itself, so it's just not a tough choice for me. Just ask yourself what you want more.

[mileslibertatis]

My order of preference is probably Stanford, Harvard, Chicago.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Any reason to NOT go ED as a top 1% at 50sish?

That's the range where HYS is plausible, but not terribly likely (because the school is too low-ranked). Tough call. At a 50ish, I'd go ahead and ED Chicago... but just be aware that if you get into Chicago and end up repeating your performance, you're going to "what-if" yourself for a long time, heh.

This is only an issue if you'd really prefer to go to HYS over Chicago. But I have a special affinity for the city itself, so it's just not a tough choice for me. Just ask yourself what you want more.

With all due respect, if you're in the transfer game, there really are no legitimate reasons to go to Chicago instead of HYS (if you get in to HYS), short of maybe "I have a dying parent who lives in Chicago." This is true even when you ignore the fact that, for most people, HYS would actually be cheaper, since they offer transfers the same need-based aid that they offer everyone else. Don't be ridiculous. The career options for transfers coming out of Chicago vs. HYS are extremely noticeable: especially when you consider that getting on to the journals at Yale and Stanford (don't know about H, but I do know that you have to go through the hell of doing the write-on there before you ever know if you get in) is much easier. (The current transfer class apparently had two people get on to Law Review via the write in--that is an absolutely crazy outlier; only one other transfer made it on via the write-on in the past 10 years.)

[mileslibertatis]

Well, I am primarily interested in academics and according to my extremely biased sources Chicago is quite good at placing academics. There is also an issue of my ideological bent - I am theologically, politically, and jurisprudentially conservative in a way that makes Chicago a better fit. That's a lot to unpack, but it is certainly a consideration for me.

But primarily there is the issue that I don't really have my hopes up about getting in to HYS in the first place.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but, to be fair, this is part of my broader decision-making as to whether to apply ED to Chicago.

[2transferornot]

Can someone please answer a question for me on PM? Thx.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Well, I am primarily interested in academics and according to my extremely biased sources Chicago is quite good at placing academics. There is also an issue of my ideological bent - I am theologically, politically, and jurisprudentially conservative in a way that makes Chicago a better fit. That's a lot to unpack, but it is certainly a consideration for me.

But primarily there is the issue that I don't really have my hopes up about getting in to HYS in the first place.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but, to be fair, this is part of my broader decision-making as to whether to apply ED to Chicago.

Chicago's academic placement is better than most schools (though certainly not better than Harvard and Yale, so... yeah....) but you need to keep in mind that academia is a long-shot for anyone, and particularly for a transfer student; especially given the very long odds of making Law Review. (I've looked into it.)

Also: While there is certainly a stronger "conservative contingent" at Chicago than elsewhere, it's not like it permeates the school, and it's not like you couldn't find like-minded folks elsewhere. Regardless, Evidence is Evidence, Securities is Securities. The only time it's really going to come out is in seminars--and then, only certain seminars.

And I have no idea what you're talking about when you call a school "jurisprudentially conservative": Yes, Easterbrook and Posner teach one seminar a year and participate in some workshops. But so does Wood. Also, "theologically" conservative? What? It's not Notre Dame.

ETA: None of this is to say that Chicago isn't an amazing school. It is. My comments were only addressed at people who have a reasonable shot at HYS, and whether ED makes sense for those people. I've had a few years to dwell on the what-ifs, so I share my view; at the end of the day, I met my wife-to-be at Chicago and my career is going to go just fine. That doesn't mean that I still don't question where I'd be had I waited and gotten in to HYS--even beyond the fact that my loan balance would probably be $50k+ less than it is now.

[mileslibertatis]

I only meant to distinguish politics from legal philosophy from theology to paint a broader worldview picture. I'm not looking for a school that is institutionally all of those things, but there is something to be said about the milieu where notions of the value of inherited tradition and pushing back against legal realism are more acceptable along with students who lean that way. This is not that important, but as between similar schools (say, Chicago and Colombia) it can tip the scales.

And you are right - it is a long shot. I suppose there is nothing more to add to the calculus beyond assessing my own propensity for "what-if" second guessing. My wife thinks I should hold out and try for HYS, but a good friend who went to Chicago thinks that ED is a good idea to squeeze every bit out of the odds as I can.

*stew stew stew*

[2transferornot]

Can someone please answer a question for me on PM? Thx.

Anyone? Just a quick question.

[mileslibertatis]

You can send me a message, but I can't guarantee you I'll have a great answer.

[2transferornot]

You can send me a message, but I can't guarantee you I'll have a great answer.

Thanks - messaged

[Sapientia]

Any reason to NOT go ED as a top 1% at 50sish?

That's the range where HYS is plausible, but not terribly likely (because the school is too low-ranked). Tough call. At a 50ish, I'd go ahead and ED Chicago... but just be aware that if you get into Chicago and end up repeating your performance, you're going to "what-if" yourself for a long time, heh.

This is only an issue if you'd really prefer to go to HYS over Chicago. But I have a special affinity for the city itself, so it's just not a tough choice for me. Just ask yourself what you want more.

With all due respect, if you're in the transfer game, there really are no legitimate reasons to go to Chicago instead of HYS (if you get in to HYS), short of maybe "I have a dying parent who lives in Chicago." This is true even when you ignore the fact that, for most people, HYS would actually be cheaper, since they offer transfers the same need-based aid that they offer everyone else. Don't be ridiculous. The career options for transfers coming out of Chicago vs. HYS are extremely noticeable: especially when you consider that getting on to the journals at Yale and Stanford (don't know about H, but I do know that you have to go through the hell of doing the write-on there before you ever know if you get in) is much easier. (The current transfer class apparently had two people get on to Law Review via the write in--that is an absolutely crazy outlier; only one other transfer made it on via the write-on in the past 10 years.)

If it weren't for poasts like these, I would be sending an app to Chicago pretty soon here. Praying to Tim Tebow that I don't blow it this semester.

[mileslibertatis]

What is for realsies meant by affiliation? Is that limited to family and grizzled elderly couples that raised you as their own?

[jarofsoup]

What is for realsies meant by affiliation? Is that limited to family and grizzled elderly couples that raised you as their own?

PM'ed

[InnocuousDiatribe]

Any reason to NOT go ED as a top 1% at 50sish?

That's the range where HYS is plausible, but not terribly likely (because the school is too low-ranked). Tough call. At a 50ish, I'd go ahead and ED Chicago... but just be aware that if you get into Chicago and end up repeating your performance, you're going to "what-if" yourself for a long time, heh.

This is only an issue if you'd really prefer to go to HYS over Chicago. But I have a special affinity for the city itself, so it's just not a tough choice for me. Just ask yourself what you want more.

With all due respect, if you're in the transfer game, there really are no legitimate reasons to go to Chicago instead of HYS (if you get in to HYS), short of maybe "I have a dying parent who lives in Chicago." This is true even when you ignore the fact that, for most people, HYS would actually be cheaper, since they offer transfers the same need-based aid that they offer everyone else. Don't be ridiculous. The career options for transfers coming out of Chicago vs. HYS are extremely noticeable: especially when you consider that getting on to the journals at Yale and Stanford (don't know about H, but I do know that you have to go through the hell of doing the write-on there before you ever know if you get in) is much easier. (The current transfer class apparently had two people get on to Law Review via the write in--that is an absolutely crazy outlier; only one other transfer made it on via the write-on in the past 10 years.)

And with all respect due, your underlying assumption is that everyone in the "transfer game" is in it for the same reasons and that there are few legitimate reasons besides those that are gravely personal. I grew up in Chicago, but moved elsewhere during my high school years. My intention has always been to return. In addition, I'm fortunate enough to where debt isn't a pressuring issue. As I said, I have a special affinity for Chicago, which makes the choice easy enough for me.

Still, I will agree with you to the extent that most transfer students in our position (higher-ranked T2 with a reasonable chance at HYS) may benefit from waiting. I hope that cleared up my response a bit. Edit--And thank you, by the way, for your continued participation in this forum even after having completed the transfer process. It is sincerely appreciated.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Fair enough. Just be aware that transfers to UChicago have been locked out of the Chicago market before (or left with scant options in that market). Of course, my experience is shaded by being in CO 2011 (I only got an offer from one Chicago firm, myself--at least in 2L); I don't know whether any of this year's transfers got shut out of Chicago, but you need to consider that Chicago has not recovered in the same way that NYC has. Something tells me that, all things being equal, a HYS transfer is going to have a much better shot at Kirkland/Mayer/Sidley/Jenner/Winston out of OCI than a UChicago transfer will. The UChicago transfer, these days, will probably get an offer from one of them--the Harvard transfer will probably have a broader choice. Even for someone who really wants to be in Chicago (I would spend the rest of my life here, if I could), you have to consider whether you're shooting yourself in the foot long-term over a 2-year timeframe.

And thanks for the nod. Good luck with your application!

[InnocuousDiatribe]

Fair enough. Just be aware that transfers to UChicago have been locked out of the Chicago market before (or left with scant options in that market). Of course, my experience is shaded by being in CO 2011 (I only got an offer from one Chicago firm, myself--at least in 2L); I don't know whether any of this year's transfers got shut out of Chicago, but you need to consider that Chicago has not recovered in the same way that NYC has. Something tells me that, all things being equal, a HYS transfer is going to have a much better shot at Kirkland/Mayer/Sidley/Jenner/Winston out of OCI than a UChicago transfer will. The UChicago transfer, these days, will probably get an offer from one of them--the Harvard transfer will probably have a broader choice. Even for someone who really wants to be in Chicago (I would spend the rest of my life here, if I could), you have to consider whether you're shooting yourself in the foot long-term over a 2-year timeframe.

And thanks for the nod. Good luck with your application!

Interesting. I have my sights set, currently, on a fed. clerkship after graduation and a lit. boutique afterwards, e.g., Susman, QE, etc. (with the intention to stay), rather than the "traditional" route straight into V50. Any insight on this?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Fair enough. Just be aware that transfers to UChicago have been locked out of the Chicago market before (or left with scant options in that market). Of course, my experience is shaded by being in CO 2011 (I only got an offer from one Chicago firm, myself--at least in 2L); I don't know whether any of this year's transfers got shut out of Chicago, but you need to consider that Chicago has not recovered in the same way that NYC has. Something tells me that, all things being equal, a HYS transfer is going to have a much better shot at Kirkland/Mayer/Sidley/Jenner/Winston out of OCI than a UChicago transfer will. The UChicago transfer, these days, will probably get an offer from one of them--the Harvard transfer will probably have a broader choice. Even for someone who really wants to be in Chicago (I would spend the rest of my life here, if I could), you have to consider whether you're shooting yourself in the foot long-term over a 2-year timeframe.

And thanks for the nod. Good luck with your application!

Interesting. I have my sights set, currently, on a fed. clerkship after graduation and a lit. boutique afterwards, e.g., Susman, QE, etc. (with the intention to stay), rather than the "traditional" route straight into V50. Any insight on this?

See, this screams "hold out for HYS" to me. Only two transfers in my class got clerkships; one CoA, one district court. The current transfers may do better since two got on to LR via the write-on, but still. Clerkships can be a really tough go as a transfer--especially since the judges that move before the summer are basically a no-go since you'll need a full year of grades to convince anyone--and you need every conceivable edge you can get in that regard. Of course, clerkships are also an absolute requirement for most lit boutiques. Also, the only Susman-level lit boutique with an office in Chicago is Bartlit-Beck, which is incredibly competitive. (There are other lit boutiques; they are also very hard to land.)

ETA: I didn't apply for lit boutiques--I was 100% locked in to Chicago, and am going the bankruptcy route--so I can't provide a personal anecdote about how I would have done in that process.

ETA2: All to add, though, this has to be balanced against the risk of a double-whamy of not getting into HYS and having your grades drop you out of UChicago contention. That's a risk analysis that no one can do for you.

[InnocuousDiatribe]

Fair enough, thanks!

[ToTransferOrNot]

Fair enough, thanks!

(By the way, when I say Bartlit is "incredibly competitive", I mean "you will not get a job there." Something like a quarter of the lawyers there have clerked for SCOTUS, the vast majority is CoA, blah blah blah. It may actually be the most selective firm in the country; if it's not, it's awfully close.)

[yabuddy]

What is for realsies meant by affiliation? Is that limited to family and grizzled elderly couples that raised you as their own?

PM'ed

Dear UChi,

One time my dad took a shit in one of your bathrooms. So do I just get grandfathered in or what?

Thank you

[IsTheFatLadySinging]

Has anyone gone complete?

[yabuddy]

Has anyone gone complete?

Yep, 4/17

[InnocuousDiatribe]

Information form was sent 4/17. I expect it to go complete 4/19, but I'll update when it does.

Edit--Went complete 4/20 (good feeling about this).

[jarofsoup]

Complete 4/19. I am not very optimistic about admission coming from a T2. However, I come from a better T2, so who knows. From last Years ED cycle I do not think anyone actually got in....


People will disagree with me on this but I think the softs come into play big time in transfer cycles because of a schools ability to be super selective and attract a strong applicant pool.