Official University of Chicago Transfer Class 2012 Forum

[megaTTTron]

Thanks for all the housing advice.


Bizen & Kev - any word on grades?

[dr venkman]

Hi guys ... I'm another ED admit. T50, top 2%. I had been hesitant to join the conversation - but now that I've received one grade in particular, I'm much more confident I won't be rescinded. Anyway, I haven't seen much discussed here about on-campus housing. Is this a viable option for a 2L? Or does Regents (or other HP apartment buildings) essentially serve that purpose? I'd like to be walking distance to the law school, or a very short drive at worst.

Looking forward to meeting all of you.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Hi guys ... I'm another ED admit. T50, top 2%. I had been hesitant to join the conversation - but now that I've received one grade in particular, I'm much more confident I won't be rescinded. Anyway, I haven't seen much discussed here about on-campus housing. Is this a viable option for a 2L? Or does Regents (or other HP apartment buildings) essentially serve that purpose? I'd like to be walking distance to the law school, or a very short drive at worst.

Looking forward to meeting all of you.

The only "on campus" housing is New Grad. I don't have a link for you, but it is basically graduate dorms. Concensus: overpriced, not worth it. You don't get your own kitchen. You have to move out in the summer. It's expensive. All kinds of bad--but, it is really close to the law school.

Depending on your definition, Regents is walkable. ~2 miles. Rough during the winter unless you're used to it. However, there is essentially a shuttle between Regents and the Law School--the 172 stops in front of Regents, drops you in front of the law school. Runs every 15 mins during the week at "slow periods" and every 5 minutes at peak times (though the times may change--it was less frequent at the beginning of this year until people threw a fit.) This bus is free with ID. It's a 5 minute drive from Regents to the law school, though finding parking may be a different story.

There's also graduate student housing. Basically, apartment buildings like any other apartment building, but owned by the University as opposed to a 3rd party. I don't know anyone who takes that option--everyone seems to either live in Regents/Algonquin (apartments that are directly across the street from Regents--a touch cheaper, not nearly as well advertised; may not be cheaper anymore, because Regents is lowering its rates for law students for the coming year--the building isn't as "fancy," really only matters if the gym in Regents *really* appeals to you (as it does to me, even though it is overpriced)) or elsewhere in the city.

Oh, a warning about Regents. The internet speed--it is awful. AWFUL. As in, I sometimes am connecting ~40k (yes, I said 40k. Hello, 1994) at busy times (i.e. nights, mid-afternoon weekends). This may be my biggest point of irritance actually. You can get your own internet, but you feel like you're ripping yourself off, because internet is "complimentary" (i.e. you already pay for it) in the rent, so paying for your own connection is infuriating. If you have any bandwidth-heavy internet uses, though, you may have to suck it up.

Congrats on getting in! Also, join me in mourning your lost Harvard opportunity;)

Seems like UChicago took some lower-ranking schools and lower classranks this year. It appears that my colleagues and I advising against doing ED may have had an impact--maybe they will reconsider not giving ED transfers a touch of merit aid, now

[megaTTTron]

Hi guys ... I'm another ED admit. T50, top 2%. I had been hesitant to join the conversation - but now that I've received one grade in particular, I'm much more confident I won't be rescinded. Anyway, I haven't seen much discussed here about on-campus housing. Is this a viable option for a 2L? Or does Regents (or other HP apartment buildings) essentially serve that purpose? I'd like to be walking distance to the law school, or a very short drive at worst.

Looking forward to meeting all of you.

Congrats! Welcome to the conversation. I feel your reluctance. But now that you're sure (or close to it) welcome.

[dr venkman]

Thanks guys. TTON - I will have to make a trip to Chicago soon to get a better feel for the neighborhood but it sounds like the Regents/shuttle combo might be a winner. Unfortunately, two miles is about one mile outside of my "walking distance" range.

And Mega - thanks. Yes, I am still not feeling 100% ... maybe 90% now. And regardless, it's all still pretty surreal. I've told a couple of professors at my current school about the move, but I haven't told any of my classmates yet. Have you taken that step?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Thanks guys. TTON - I will have to make a trip to Chicago soon to get a better feel for the neighborhood but it sounds like the Regents/shuttle combo might be a winner. Unfortunately, two miles is about one mile outside of my "walking distance" range.

And Mega - thanks. Yes, I am still not feeling 100% ... maybe 90% now. And regardless, it's all still pretty surreal. I've told a couple of professors at my current school about the move, but I haven't told any of my classmates yet. Have you taken that step?

I was in a study group when I got the call from Chicago. That was . I anxiously grabbed the phone, they clearly were confused (because I ALWAYS have my phone off when I'm with other people,) clearly was excited/speechless. They all looked at me like "WTF?" as I was talking/as I got off the phone, and I told them what was going on. Made focusing on the Civ Pro exam that was 2 days later kind of hard.

[megaTTTron]

Thanks guys. TTON - I will have to make a trip to Chicago soon to get a better feel for the neighborhood but it sounds like the Regents/shuttle combo might be a winner. Unfortunately, two miles is about one mile outside of my "walking distance" range.

And Mega - thanks. Yes, I am still not feeling 100% ... maybe 90% now. And regardless, it's all still pretty surreal. I've told a couple of professors at my current school about the move, but I haven't told any of my classmates yet. Have you taken that step?

I told the professors who wrote letters and who gave me advice. A few close friends knew. Then my best friend from high school posted something on my facebook wall while I was at work. And it was literally a massacre. Haha. God. W/e it had to come out some time. School had been out for a few weeks so I wasn't there to deal with it.

[megaTTTron]

Thanks guys. TTON - I will have to make a trip to Chicago soon to get a better feel for the neighborhood but it sounds like the Regents/shuttle combo might be a winner. Unfortunately, two miles is about one mile outside of my "walking distance" range.

And Mega - thanks. Yes, I am still not feeling 100% ... maybe 90% now. And regardless, it's all still pretty surreal. I've told a couple of professors at my current school about the move, but I haven't told any of my classmates yet. Have you taken that step?

I was in a study group when I got the call from Chicago. That was . I anxiously grabbed the phone, they clearly were confused (because I ALWAYS have my phone off when I'm with other people,) clearly was excited/speechless. They all looked at me like "WTF?" as I was talking/as I got off the phone, and I told them what was going on. Made focusing on the Civ Pro exam that was 2 days later kind of hard.

I was in a movie when I got the call. I let it go to voice mail. Listened to the message, said "Oh dear god," got up and literally ran out. My friends thought someone had died. I spent the next 30 minutes running around the theater calling people. I need to re-watch Robinhood.

[dr venkman]

Great stories. Fortunately I found out after exams. I was alone in my apartment working on my write-on when I got the call. First thing I did after hanging up was to throw out the write-on booklet and call my entire family. I'm thinking I will probably wait until I have all of my grades to tell my classmates, as to avoid any potential embarrassment.

And from what I hear, Mega, you're probably lucky to have missed most of Robin Hood ...

[megaTTTron]

Great stories. Fortunately I found out after exams. I was alone in my apartment working on my write-on when I got the call. First thing I did after hanging up was to throw out the write-on booklet and call my entire family. I'm thinking I will probably wait until I have all of my grades to tell my classmates, as to avoid any potential embarrassment.

And from what I hear, Mega, you're probably lucky to have missed most of Robin Hood ...

hahah. I found out the day I turned in my write on. And yea, I was hoping it would be more like Gladiator. What I saw was nothing close.

[megaTTTron]

TToN -- there is a promotion from UC where if you sign a lease in Regents by the 31st of may you can get a 1BR for 1045 or something a month. Is this what you did, or can I wait and just get a regular room for a comparable price? I'm sort of freaking out about having to make a quick decision.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Great stories. Fortunately I found out after exams. I was alone in my apartment working on my write-on when I got the call. First thing I did after hanging up was to throw out the write-on booklet and call my entire family. I'm thinking I will probably wait until I have all of my grades to tell my classmates, as to avoid any potential embarrassment.

And from what I hear, Mega, you're probably lucky to have missed most of Robin Hood ...

If it isn't too late, you really should do the write-on at your original school. Don't underestimate how much the "accepted to blahblahblah law review" line seems to help at OCI. A mistake I learned the hard way. ("You didn't make it on to law review." "Well, I was accepted to transfer bef.." "I see you got on to CJIL. Ok." *ugh*.) Other transfers commented that interviewers seemed to notice that they made LR at the old schools.

It won't break you either way, and I know it is almost impossible to force yourself through the write-on when you know you probably won't be sticking around (I quit halfway through--it was a Friday night, I was working on it... and I just said fuck it, called it in, and was drunk for 4 days. No time to finish the write-on )

[bizen boat]

Thanks for all the housing advice.


Bizen & Kev - any word on grades?

Nope, I doubt I'll hear anything until mid-June. Sucks how much of a black box grades are, but I think I did alright. I can't wait to find out for sure.

[megaTTTron]

Does anyone know if we're supposed to be doing anything about the write on at this point?

[miamiman]

Models & bottles


Edit: congrats to you all btw

[kevzez]

Yea no words on grades yet which is frustrating. Tomorrow will make 1 month since i turned in my constitutional law final and over 3 months since i turned in contracts. The silence is kind of stressful but I did spend memorial day weekend in Chicago with a few of my friends.

[dresden doll]

Hi everyone.
So, I am kind of sick of studying for finals (damn you, UChi quarter system) so I thought I'd chime in and let you know that I happened to hang out with my Torts prof. (a.k.a. former dean) the other day and the convo turned to new ED transfer program. As per him, all consistent performance means is that you need to not screw up egregiously. And by egregiously, he means - don't wind up in the bottom 10 percent or so your second semester.

The margin of error is large. UChi doesn't want to revoke anyone's admission because it would only mean that people would eventually lose faith in the program and not bother doing it.

So - dial down the stress, have a beer (or 50) and enjoy Hyde Park next year! Chances are, you'll all be here.

-Chi 1L

[dr venkman]

Dresden, thanks. Similar to everyone else here, I was curious - and pretty nervous - about "consistent performance," so I called the admissions office. They said essentially the same thing as your prof. My sense is that "consistent performance" is a way out for them in case an ED admit either does not complete the second semester or does not put in a good faith effort (as demonstrated by failing a course or coming close to it). Pure speculation, but I don't think second-semester Bs would be cause for re-evaluation.

[MaroonBafoon5]

Congrats to everyone accepted as a transfer to The University of Chicago Law School! Seriously, it will end up being one of the best decisions of your life to transfer to this school. As a rising 3L and fellow transfer, I can't tell you how many doors have just been opened for you.

I am actually looking for a roommate this fall if anyone is interested. I am super busy with my summer job, but I left my contact information with Jayme McKellop if you're interested. It's an open room for about $675/mo in Regents with some great amenities. She has all the details, so feel free to talk to her. If you're reading this, that means the offer is still open.

Congrats again people. Enjoy your summers.

[lurker12]

As an incoming transfer who is currently working and enjoying a relatively relaxed schedule, I'm interested in any advice on the write-on process. I know it was covered in a number of posts earlier, but I'm specifically trying to gauge whether or not it's worth it. Certainly I believe that Law Review is a worthwhile endeavor, but seeing as transfers don't exactly have a great history of making the write-on for Law Review, I'm wondering if my efforts would be better spent trying to get onto one of the other journals.

The CJIL has posted info on its version of the write-on process. Though I haven't seen anything from the U of C Legal Forum.

My questions are (numbered for ease of response):

1) Are the odds for a transfer writing-on better for the CJIL or the Legal Forum than for Law Review?

2) How respected are those journals relative to A) Law Review and B) not writing on any journal?

3) Does anyone know anything about the write-on process for the U of C Legal Forum?

4) How bad does it look to an employer that the student has no journal experience?

5) Presumably, since there are only 3 journals the majority of students don't participate in any of them. Is that a fair statement?

6) Are clinics considered an alternative to a journal or do most students who write for a journal also do a clinic?

7) Is going to U of C, getting pretty good grades and being a good interview enough to get most jobs?

8 ) Other than law journals and clinics are there any impressive, enjoyable and interesting extra-curricular activities which we should consider?


Sorry for all the questions and for my ignorance, but I would appreciate any guidance.

[ToTransferOrNot]

1.) Your odds of writing on to a secondary are better simply because of number of write-ons. But that applies to "natives" too. The write-ons are done blind--we don't know who is a transfer while we're grading. The EIC last year of CJIL didn't know I was a transfer until CJIL orientation.

Keep in mind, only 10 people max write on to law review via the write-on competition, period. 2 of those can be transfers, but I seriously doubt there will ever be a circumstance where they have to test that number. AFAIK, there is no max number of transfers that can make it on to the secondaries via the write-on.

2.) Obviously secondary journals are dust in the wind compared to Law Review. That said, secondary is >>> nothing, especially if you end up with a board position for clerkship apps.

3.) AFAIK, this year is the same as prior years--there is only 1 write-on for all three journals. LR takes its people, then CJIL/Legal Forum take theirs.

4 + 5.) Obviously it isn't good to have no journal. For a transfer, journal is particularly helpful in that it does say, at least a bit, "I can hang with this new crowd." However, as you point out, mathematically the majority of people aren't on a journal. CJIL takes ~20 staffers, legal forum takes ~20, law review takes ~30. There are~180 people in the class. So yeah.

6.) You can easily do a secondary journal + clinic. Several people do Law Review + clinic. This depends a lot on the clinic and whether it happens to be busy. Employment discrimination project, for example, is more like an actual law practice in that it has significant peaks and valleys. (I put in ~45 hours over 3 quarters... other clinics will have you at 45 per quarter. You get 1 credit per 45 hours, calculated after you stop taking the clinic.) If you're interested in transactional work, by the way, there is something called "advanced corporate practicum" which is essentially a transactional clinic. If you have more specific questions about it, PM me. I only took it one quarter this year, but.. well, more details via pm, but suffice it to say I am very familiar with the program now. If you're asking re: job purposes though... no, it isn't a substitute. Also, most people don't get a clinic for the Autumn quarter anyway.

7.) There are representatives from the transfer class at all of the top Chicago firms. We don't have anyone at Wachtel or Cravath that I know of. You need to keep in mind that 2L grades only really matter for job prospects if you strike out at OCI, and you're screwed at that point anyway. Good enough for clerkships? If you get on to Law Review, you'll be as competitive as anyone else. If you don't, you won't be. Make sure you take a class that provides you with a good academic writing sample your 2L year--I didn't do that, and don't have my comment done, and I'm probably toast for clerkships because of it, even though I'm at or near top 1% of the class.

Other than journals, clinics (+ corporate practicum,) consider the intra-school moot court. I didn't do it, wish I had. Also, take classes with the famous people. Put Easterbrook's seminar, whatever it is, as your #1 lottery choice for whatever quarter he teaches--odds are 1:3 that you'll get in, and he famously says "*gesturing quotes* 'congratulations' on *gesturig* 'winning' the lottery"--this during the first class meeting, for which you read 1000 pages. Literally. And probably briefed it all, because it is Frank F-ing Easterbrook. And then, at the end of it, you did really really well in the class if you get a 180, because he grades below the curve. But it's still Frank F-ing Easterbrook. Same goes for Posner. Take a con law class with Stone, even if you don't like con law (I wish I had done this. He is a killer to have for clerkship recommendations). Take every class Douglas Baird offers, even though they are at 8:30 in the morning.

Edit: I'm always happy to answer questions btw. Please just post them here unless they would involve personal info.. if you're asking for personal info from me, I'll just reply with that in PM. You'll all get assigned a "transfer advisor" at some point in the summer, but whatever.

[lurker12]

Thanks very much.

So re #6, I didn't realize that the write-on process for the CJIL and the Legal Forum were the same as that for Law Review. I suppose that makes deciding whether or not to attempt to write-on to Law Review a much easier call (and therefore a more difficult summer).

And re #8, you referred to Easterbrook grading "below 180". I don't really have any idea what that means. I assume it has something to do with the curve at U of C, but would you mind explaining? I know you were just using Easterbrook as an example, and I'm not so much interested in knowing about his class as I am about understanding the curve throughout U of C.

Thanks for everything.

[ToTransferOrNot]

The median for classes with more than ~50 people is 177. Numbers of As (180 or higher) must = number of Cs. A huge majority of classes end up with 60-70% of the class getting a 176-178. To give you an idea, 19% of the class makes the cutoff for honors, which is an average GPA at graduation of 179. Less than 5% get high honors, which is 180.5. .4% (In other words, one person every 2-3 years, on average) gets highest honors, which is 182.

Easterbrook, along with some other professors, have a notoriously tough grading system--even in seminars, which don't have to be curved at all. The "street talk" is that, over the years, Easterbrook's medians have been closer to 175-6 for his seminars. Whether that is true or not, who knows.

As for the writing competition--yeah, you should do it. But TBH, it might be too late to opt in (I think the comp started today for rising 2Ls). I would e-mail whoever your contact is in admissions immediately.

[miamiman]

The median for classes with more than ~50 people is 177. Numbers of As (180 or higher) must = number of Cs. A huge majority of classes end up with 60-70% of the class getting a 176-178. To give you an idea, 19% of the class makes the cutoff for honors, which is an average GPA at graduation of 179. Less than 5% get high honors, which is 180.5. .4% (In other words, one person every 2-3 years, on average) gets highest honors, which is 182.

Easterbrook, along with some other professors, have a notoriously tough grading system--even in seminars, which don't have to be curved at all. The "street talk" is that, over the years, Easterbrook's medians have been closer to 175-6 for his seminars. Whether that is true or not, who knows.

As for the writing competition--yeah, you should do it. But TBH, it might be too late to opt in (I think the comp started today for rising 2Ls). I would e-mail whoever your contact is in admissions immediately.

Tton, does the shape of that curve apply to 1l reqd courses?

[ToTransferOrNot]

yes

Edit: If you mean the breakdown re: honors (so 19% of the class in a required 1L class would get 179, 5% would get 180.5, etc.) then I don't know whether it is required, but it is basically how it breaks down.