Berkeley to S/Y/H? Forum

[SLS_AMG]

Why would you want to transfer.

Cause graduating from Harvard sounds a lot better than graduating from Berkeley. Plus, OP is going to have a good outcome either way. By staying at Berkeley, OP will be good. Transferring to Harvard as a top student from Berkeley, OP will still be good.

Graduating from Berkeley raises some eyebrows and people/lawyers will think you're smart or whatever, but people will think you're a genius if you graduate from S/H/Y. I'd do it if there's not a big change in debt.

This is the kind of bad high school-level-reasoning post we used to see in 2007 when tls was a bunch of prestige chasing k-jds. Things have changed.
Lol if you think lawyers graduating from some group of three schools are geniuses or perceived as such as opposed to all the similar other ones. You're in for a rude awakening if you think going to any law school makes you a 'genius'. You're still just a lawyer. Once you start your job, you'll see how little it will matter.

There are good reasons to transfer, but this is not one of them.

Don't feel bad about yourself cause you've been on TLS since 2007, bagel boy.

There's definitely reasons to transfer. Academia, bringing in clients, etc. And let's face it, prestige does matter in law. I don't think OP is going to have any problems getting any opportunity they want as a transfer. You think that firms are going to think "Oh this guy was top 3% at Cal, but he's a transfer student here so let's not hire him?" I don't think OP is going to lose any edge by transferring because they did so well at Berkeley.

All these arguments about lawyers wanting a high billing lawyer from Cal vs. a lazy student from HYS make no sense. OP is still going to bill the same number of hours regardless of where he goes to school. He's the same person.

Transferring will open more doors in your future than staying at Cal. Period.

A top student at Cal--or any other T14--can do anything in the legal world.

Also, LOL at bringing in clients. Please tell me how going to Harvard is going to bring in clients to a big law firm. Please.

[SLS_AMG]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

[Biglaw1990]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Iol

[Nekrowizard]

I am not an expert at the Berkeley grading scheme, but I suspect that you do not need to repeat your performance, especially not for Harvard. You will likely be fine with an H or two. For what it's worth, if you don't end up paying that much more money at a HYS, I say go for it. Your job prospects aren't really going to improve very much. But neither will they be hurt. And you'll be able to coast along on a P/H system that's much easier than breaking your back for HHs for the next two years.

I knew a Berkeley transfer to an HYS who ended up snagging offers from most of the top firms no problem, and they had the added advantage of those firms (WLRK, W&C, etc.) actually showing up to OCI at HYS, whereas they would have had to mail at Berkeley.

[thricelawyer9]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Spoken like a true Berkeley grad. It's not my fault Berkeley sucks. Maybe to you pot smoking liberal hippies up in Northern California it doesn't. But that's just to you pot smoking hippies.

Don't be mad cause you didn't get in to HYS. Some people must be really insecure about their law school. (Cough cough Berkeley law students cough cough). Face it guys, no one besides yourself thinks you're as smart as HYS grads.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

In terms of prestige, yes. But An HYS degree does not lead to better outcomes in the private sector.

For the record, 0Ls are not supposed to give advice in the transfer forum.

[sublime]

..

[thricelawyer9]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

[thricelawyer9]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

Just pure logic. You do the math.

[juzam_djinn]

thricelawyer is an obvious troll....let's not feed him

[thricelawyer9]

thricelawyer is an obvious troll....let's not feed him

Ding ding. However, Berkeley does not = Harvard and it will never = Harvard.

All the Berkeley students will just have to deal with this.

[thricelawyer9]

Harvard students probably would have figured out that I was trying to troll them. Berkeley students couldn't figure that out though.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

Just pure logic. You do the math.

Oh, so you have no explanation. Got it.

[thricelawyer9]

The doors metaphor is probably the most blasphemous bullshit on these forums.

Fwiw I joined in 2012, I just know my history. Not that it matters. But I do know a lot more about legal hiring than you.

I'm not denying there are specific reasons a transfer makes sense--like wanting to become a legal academic, as you said. There's no generic advantage, however, to being an HLS transfer over a top student at Boalt. Probably the inverse.

Face it man. HYS >>>>> B. Any day of the week. Especially nationally. Don't settle by staying at some UC school when you have the opportunity to achieve true greatness. This is probably what bagelboy is so mad about.

Again, the irony of a 1L who is trying to transfer to GW or Emory trying to trash a top-10 school is just incredible. I love how someone who will have none of the opportunities mentioned anywhere in this thread is trying to quantify the opportunities of these four schools as if s/he knows anything.

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

Just pure logic. You do the math.

Oh, so you have no explanation. Got it.

Clearly you were an English major. Does reading Mary Poppins and then talking about how it makes you feel really qualify as graduating college?

[rpupkin]

Twenty comments later and nobody has actually responded to OP.

You can get an H or two and still be in range, but I would advise against it. I think three H is pushing it, though, since H grades are viewed more as B+ than A- on a traditional curve. AmJur helps a bit too since they are A+ grades.

You're clearly at the tippy top of the class at Boalt and these transfers have been done with these grades before. Often there are HYPS undergrads who end up at YHS transferring out of Boalt with these grades. And you will not see degraded opportunities at all with these grades to be clear. At least one such transfer I know ended up at one of the most selective firms in the country doing exactly this. My view is if you were at HLS or YLS you would be viewed as a top 10-15% student.

Please name the firm that (1) would not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student, but (2) would hire that same student if he transferred to HYS.

This thread is rife with pro-HYS trolling.

[thricelawyer9]

Twenty comments later and nobody has actually responded to OP.

You can get an H or two and still be in range, but I would advise against it. I think three H is pushing it, though, since H grades are viewed more as B+ than A- on a traditional curve. AmJur helps a bit too since they are A+ grades.

You're clearly at the tippy top of the class at Boalt and these transfers have been done with these grades before. Often there are HYPS undergrads who end up at YHS transferring out of Boalt with these grades. And you will not see degraded opportunities at all with these grades to be clear. At least one such transfer I know ended up at one of the most selective firms in the country doing exactly this. My view is if you were at HLS or YLS you would be viewed as a top 10-15% student.

Please name the firm that would (1) not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student, but (2) would hire that same student if he transferred to HYS.

This thread is rife with pro-HYS trolling.

Please (1) Name the firm that would not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student if the student transferred to HYS.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

Just pure logic. You do the math.

Oh, so you have no explanation. Got it.

Clearly you were an English major. Does reading Mary Poppins and then talking about how it makes you feel really qualify as graduating college?

I'm not the one who can't defend my snark, pal.

[rpupkin]

Please (1) Name the firm that would not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student if the student transferred to HYS.

I doubt such a firm exits. I don't think students change their law-firm options one way or the other by transferring from Penn/Berkeley/UVA/Michigan/whatever to HYS. But I do think they screw up their clerkship opportunities, particularly if the student was among the top few students in the class at their 1L school. Students who transfer struggle to make connections with profs at their new school; meanwhile, the top students at their 1L school get feeder clerkships. I've never understood the logic of transferring when you're way up there in your class at a school like Berkeley.

It's less stupid if you're not at the top of your class—like you're top 15% or something—and one of HYS will take you.

[thricelawyer9]

Hey, according to your logic, students at GW are just as smart as cal students.

How does this follow from anything he's said previously?

Just pure logic. You do the math.

Oh, so you have no explanation. Got it.

Clearly you were an English major. Does reading Mary Poppins and then talking about how it makes you feel really qualify as graduating college?

I'm not the one who can't defend my snark, pal.

Poster believes Cal students are just as smart as Harvard students despite clear evidence that they are not e.g., LSAT scores, GPA, etc. By same logic, GW students are just as smart as Cal students despite clear evidence to the contrary e.g., LSAT, GPA, etc.

And if you say that poster doesn't believe that Cal students are as smart as Harvard students, that just proves my point that Harvard students are smarter students than Cal students.

[jbagelboy]

I didn't attend Cal or any UC school.

But I'd rather be a top student at Cal than a transfer at some school a few slots higher in some bullshit commercial magazine survey. Not hating on transfers, many of them are making a good decision for their circumstances.

also thricelawyer is the new dumbest troll on this board.

[jbagelboy]

Please (1) Name the firm that would not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student if the student transferred to HYS.

I doubt such a firm exits. I don't think students change their law-firm options one way or the other by transferring from Penn/Berkeley/UVA/Michigan/whatever to HYS. But I do think they screw up their clerkship opportunities, particularly if the student was among the top few students in the class at their 1L school. Students who transfer struggle to make connections with profs at their new school; meanwhile, the top students at their 1L school get feeder clerkships. I've never understood the logic of transferring when you're way up there in your class at a school like Berkeley.

It's less stupid if you're not at the top of your class—like you're top 15% or something—and one of HYS will take you.

Yea I agree with all of this but especially the last sentence; if I was not really at the top of my class but just had pretty good grades and no/weak scholarship aid, I'd be in the most likely position to apply to transfer up a few slots.

[thricelawyer9]

I didn't attend Cal or any UC school.

But I'd rather be a top student at Cal than a transfer at some school a few slots higher in some bullshit commercial magazine survey. Not hating on transfers, many of them are making a good decision for their circumstances.

also thricelawyer is the new dumbest troll on this board.

Your logic makes you the "new dumbest" troll on this board. Congrats.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Poster believes Cal students are just as smart as Harvard students despite clear evidence that they are not e.g., LSAT scores, GPA, etc. By same logic, GW students are just as smart as Cal students despite clear evidence to the contrary e.g., LSAT, GPA, etc.

And if you say that poster doesn't believe that Cal students are as smart as Harvard students, that just proves my point that Harvard students are smarter students than Cal students.

Harvard students collectively, on average, have slightly higher LSAT/GPAs than Berkeley students do. If you think that's some kind of absolute measure of intelligence, or more importantly, the skills legal employers look for, well, good luck with that. In any case, the Berkeley student who does well enough to transfer to Harvard is clearly not less intelligent than Harvard students (neither is the GW student who pulls it off). What if they didn't transfer? Does the fact that they stay at Berkeley magically mean they're less intelligent than if they get that HLS on their diploma?

Edit: why are you so invested in arguing for some vast gulf between Berkeley and Harvard? You're not looking at either school. Football rivalry or what? By your logic, you must be less smart than GW students.

[Nekrowizard]

Please (1) Name the firm that would not hire a top-of-the-class Berkeley student if the student transferred to HYS.

I doubt such a firm exits. I don't think students change their law-firm options one way or the other by transferring from Penn/Berkeley/UVA/Michigan/whatever to HYS. But I do think they screw up their clerkship opportunities, particularly if the student was among the top few students in the class at their 1L school. Students who transfer struggle to make connections with profs at their new school; meanwhile, the top students at their 1L school get feeder clerkships. I've never understood the logic of transferring when you're way up there in your class at a school like Berkeley.

It's less stupid if you're not at the top of your class—like you're top 15% or something—and one of HYS will take you.

I'm on board with this. If you want to clerk, then you are hurting yourself by transferring. You'll still get a clerkship if you want, but it'll likely be a less desirable clerkship than you would otherwise get. It'll also be a pain to harass your old professors for letters and all that. If you have no intention of clerking, however, I recommend the transfer if you're not going to end up paying much more and you get some psychic/whatever benefit from it.