Tier 3 v. Michigan Forum

[CG614]

Leave. #1 ranking can't stay on your resume forever. U of Mich can.

[thepaintrain]

It can't be stated enough how difficult well paying legal jobs in Grand Rapids are to come by. I went to Grand Valley State University. All the new fancy buildings we have are paid for by the rich Dutch families in the area that own that city and surrounding areas. Without connections, you don't get those jobs unless you went to T-14. They aren't just hiring people from Michigan State/Wayne State these days that they don't know from a ham sandwich. You either know people and/or are top notch. Plenty of people transition in to pretty decent jobs after working in other places for a while it seems but it's crazy rare that people get these jobs after JUST graduating from MSU/WSU.

If you want to stay in state(which I don't get but do your thing) and actually make some money you'd be better off going to Michigan. However, 90k is a large sum of money and with a full ride you can afford to take a little more job placement risk if you are willing. Good luck with the decision. I turned down a full ride at MSU and still question it so I feel for you.

[seespotrun]

It can't be stated enough how difficult well paying legal jobs in Grand Rapids are to come by. I went to Grand Valley State University. All the new fancy buildings we have are paid for by the rich Dutch families in the area that own that city and surrounding areas. Without connections, you don't get those jobs unless you went to T-14. They aren't just hiring people from Michigan State/Wayne State these days that they don't know from a ham sandwich. You either know people and/or are top notch. Plenty of people transition in to pretty decent jobs after working in other places for a while it seems but it's crazy rare that people get these jobs after JUST graduating from MSU/WSU.

If you want to stay in state(which I don't get but do your thing) and actually make some money you'd be better off going to Michigan. However, 90k is a large sum of money and with a full ride you can afford to take a little more job placement risk if you are willing. Good luck with the decision. I turned down a full ride at MSU and still question it so I feel for you.

#1 at MSU/WSU is employable. hth.

[sundance95]

Leave. #1 ranking can't stay on your resume forever. U of Mich can.

[ggocat]

Leave. #1 ranking can't stay on your resume forever. U of Mich can.

lolwut yes it can

it might not, though, if OP doesn't repeat performance in 2L and 3L years.

[AcesandEights]

Do you want to clerk? Do you want to teach? Do you want to leave Michigan? If yes to any of these, transfer. If the answer is no, and you're sure you want to practice in Michigan after you are done, I'd stay. I faced a similar decision: I was at a T2 who was pretty much king in its secondary market, I was way up in the class, I had a good scholarship, and I had acceptances to various T10s. I transferred, but I wanted to circuit clerk and I had some distant academic aspirations, so I rolled the dice.

Two things. First, if you do stay, know that you might not get the amazing biglaw job you want, although I think you have a very good shot at Detroit biglaw--number one and ties is fairly powerful even ITE, but only for that area. Second, if you do decide to transfer, know that you might not clerk, still might not get the biglaw job, etc. You'll increase your chances for biglaw, and, if you do well, for clerkships, but it's still a risky endeavor, and you don't sound like you want to take that risk.

[romothesavior]

Do you want to clerk? Do you want to teach? Do you want to leave Michigan? If yes to any of these, transfer.

I have heard the opposite argument made for STAYING rather than transferring for clerking. Not sure what school OP is at and I don't know what the clerkship numbers are, but the argument is that getting a clerkship has a lot to do with professor recs, so staying is often TCR in order to maintain those relationships with profs.

Not making an argument one way or the other, just throwing it out there.

[oscarthegrouch]

Do you want to clerk? Do you want to teach? Do you want to leave Michigan? If yes to any of these, transfer.

I have heard the opposite argument made for STAYING rather than transferring for clerking. Not sure what school OP is at and I don't know what the clerkship numbers are, but the argument is that getting a clerkship has a lot to do with professor recs, so staying is often TCR in order to maintain those relationships with profs.

Not making an argument one way or the other, just throwing it out there.

For clerkships, you only stay if it is not a TTT. I would transfer, then bid on Detroit and Chicago biglaw.

[romothesavior]

Do you want to clerk? Do you want to teach? Do you want to leave Michigan? If yes to any of these, transfer.

I have heard the opposite argument made for STAYING rather than transferring for clerking. Not sure what school OP is at and I don't know what the clerkship numbers are, but the argument is that getting a clerkship has a lot to do with professor recs, so staying is often TCR in order to maintain those relationships with profs.

Not making an argument one way or the other, just throwing it out there.

For clerkships, you only stay if it is not a TTT. I would transfer, then bid on Detroit and Chicago biglaw.

That's kinda what I figured.

Love your username.

[AcesandEights]

I have heard the opposite argument made for STAYING rather than transferring for clerking. Not sure what school OP is at and I don't know what the clerkship numbers are, but the argument is that getting a clerkship has a lot to do with professor recs, so staying is often TCR in order to maintain those relationships with profs.

If you are at a school that places into the type of clerkship you want, sure, it might be prudent to consider staying, as transferring means you potentially give up access to your 1L recommenders. That said, if the school doesn't place into the type of clerkship you want or any clerkships at all, you should probably transfer if you are dead set on clerking and the new school does well in that regard. My old school did place a few into DCT, but the new school did better on that end. I doubt I would have received calls from most of the COA judges I did at my old school. And it's very possible to build solid relationships with profs at the new school--you just have to put some work into it.

[CG614]

Leave. #1 ranking can't stay on your resume forever. U of Mich can.

lolwut yes it can

it might not, though, if OP doesn't repeat performance in 2L and 3L years.

Even if OP repeats, you cannot keep your class rank on your resume forever. It would look ridiculous about 10 years out.

[270910]

Leave. #1 ranking can't stay on your resume forever. U of Mich can.

lolwut yes it can

it might not, though, if OP doesn't repeat performance in 2L and 3L years.

Even if OP repeats, you cannot keep your class rank on your resume forever. It would look ridiculous about 10 years out.

Most schools give a prize for just that purpose. I've seen attorneys with said prizes hanging in their offices.

[bwv812]

.

[ggocat]

Most schools give a prize for just that purpose. I've seen attorneys with said prizes hanging in their offices.

TITCR

[selfloathingtransfer]

I think the key question is whether OP prefers to have more financial freedom straight out of law school or more geographic freedom. Financial = Stay, Geographic = UM.

Also, while OP is probably going to keep a very high ranking, there's no guarantee OP will keep THE #1 ranking. What if OP slips to . . . #2, #5? How much does that change things, if at all?

What, you think he's going to do OCI as #1, summer at the firm, and then get no-offered because he's slipped to #2 or #5?

Not getting offered isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more in terms of how slipping could change things two or five or ten years out, like someone alluded to earlier - like if OP enters a relationship w/ a supermodel and wants to move to a different part of the country, how his school choice, ranking and experience interact to affect lateral ability and geographic relocation.

[romothesavior]

I think the key question is whether OP prefers to have more financial freedom straight out of law school or more geographic freedom. Financial = Stay, Geographic = UM.

Also, while OP is probably going to keep a very high ranking, there's no guarantee OP will keep THE #1 ranking. What if OP slips to . . . #2, #5? How much does that change things, if at all?

What, you think he's going to do OCI as #1, summer at the firm, and then get no-offered because he's slipped to #2 or #5?

Not getting offered isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more in terms of how slipping could change things two or five or ten years out, like someone alluded to earlier - like if OP enters a relationship w/ a supermodel and wants to move to a different part of the country, how his school choice, ranking and experience interact to affect lateral ability and geographic relocation.

The odds of this happening < the odds of getting biglaw from Ave Maria

[trickydicky]

I had a similar situation, #1 at T2 and all the other BS that comes along with it.

I am going to transfer and go to SLS. It becomes clearer by the day that I am making the correct decision.

But the difference between me and you is that I am not tied to the current legal market where my school resides. The flexibility and portability that a big time school gives is huge. But, if you are dead set on practicing in Detroit, then I guess I cannot fault you for staying at the TTT.