Stay or Go? Forum

[transplantedbuckeye]

I still say stay at the T25 + LR. LR is a big deal, and will definitely aid your job prospects. Also, it's not like a T25 school isn't still an amazing law school and you are at the top and have a scholarship.

[starstruck393]

I still say stay at the T25 + LR. LR is a big deal, and will definitely aid your job prospects. Also, it's not like a T25 school isn't still an amazing law school and you are at the top and have a scholarship.

The problem is that he's not really at the top. I dunno, the grade thing still bugs me. OP, maybe pm more stats (current school, GPA/rank, T14 school)?

Not really going off of anything, but part of me just feels like the grades are more important than LR. That someone at the top of the class, but not on LR, would be looked at more favorably than someone like you, in the top 20/25/30/33% and on LR. While it is impressive that you were able to write on, it seems like the grades are the bigger achievement.

Anecdotal evidence is kind of a wash, as well. Sure, many people say LR is a great thing to have. But seemingly every school ITE has had stories of LR kids getting no offered, which seems to imply that it isn't a magic ticket. You still need to have other things going for you as well. And I have a friend in a similar situation, good but not great grades and wrote on to LR, albeit at a T3, not a T25. While he's said that he thinks LR's good and is glad he did it, he's also said that he doesn't think it's helped him at all in trying to find a job. Something to think about.

It just seems like there's a lot to gain by transferring - a better name/rep and with better general as well as NYC biglaw placement, more firms at OCI, a fresh start for grades with a friendlier curve, the chance to write on to LR at the new school with at least some indication that you're decent at it - and you really wouldn't have to give up much to get it.

[rando]

Talked with my professor and this is the advice he gave me, in summary:

The main thing to consider (aside from personal preference for a city, happiness, etc...) is what will land someone the best job. He thinks that the easiest way to get a job is to stand out in some way at your current law school. Law review is a great example. High grades, getting a comment published, etc... are others. Given that law review is never even close to guaranteed at the transfer school (and sometimes not even allowed), this is something to seriously think about. While ranking undoubtedly makes a difference, the difference should be high enough that not shining at your transfer school will be a better choice than shining at your current one.

The best way to figure this out, he says, is to take a look at last year’s OCI numbers for both your current school and the transfer school in the legal market in which you want to practice. There should be statistics somewhere and if not, you can always ask career services. I’m going to look into this more for myself.

All of this being said, do any of you have general thoughts off the top of your head about what might be more advantageous from an NYC biglaw perspective: (1) T25 traditionally more of a regional school + law review OR (2) T14 + no law review (since I have to assume I won’t get it).

Or other thoughts in general? Thoughts about what he said?

Thank you once again!

It really depends on your grades. T14 and no LR vs. T25 + LR is just too amorphous to quantify in terms of hiring.

[urban8]

It really depends on your grades. T14 and no LR vs. T25 + LR is just too amorphous to quantify in terms of hiring.

In response to you and starstruck:

This is true and definitely something to consider. I am not at the very top of my class and am on law review because of the write-on portion of the competition. That being said, as a transfer, I hear you are considered a median student. I am definitely way better than top half.

[rando]

It really depends on your grades. T14 and no LR vs. T25 + LR is just too amorphous to quantify in terms of hiring.

In response to you and starstruck:

This is true and definitely something to consider. I am not at the very top of my class and am on law review because of the write-on portion of the competition. That being said, as a transfer, I hear you are considered a median student. I am definitely way better than top half.

median at a t25 does not equal median at a T14.

In fact, top 1/3 at a T25 w/ LR is no sure thing for a firm job. That being said, firms interviewing at your transfer school will be looking at your grades from your T25, you're not fooling anyone.

Speaking of which, transfers being considered "median" at their new school is not credited. It is a broad generalization that may be true a lot but is not the "rule." Transfers just get better access to OCI and firm recognition that the student will graduate with a T14 degree.

[urban8]

Speaking of which, transfers being considered "median" at their new school is not credited. It is a broad generalization that may be true a lot but is not the "rule." Transfers just get better access to OCI and firm recognition that the student will graduate with a T14 degree.

I'm not exactly sure what this means. Sometimes transfers are more highly regarded than a median student at the transfer school - as in employers consider information about the school they came from? Or they are treated worse than median students?

[Mr_Palsgraf]

Make your decision and deal with it. There are pros and cons w/ each choice, neither one is perfect so stop trying to pick the "right" one, there isn't one.

[UnTouChablE]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

[urban8]

Make your decision and deal with it. There are pros and cons w/ each choice, neither one is perfect so stop trying to pick the "right" one, there isn't one.

Yes, I do realize I'm taking this decision very seriously, but deciding is easier said than done (at least for me). I have about a week left to make the decision, so no worries it'll be over soon enough.

[urban8]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

Thank you for this. I feel like I need someone to just tell me what to do at this point.

[rando]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

Thank you for this. I feel like I need someone to just tell me what to do at this point.

An internet forum is probably the wrong place to have people making your decisions for you.

[rando]

Speaking of which, transfers being considered "median" at their new school is not credited. It is a broad generalization that may be true a lot but is not the "rule." Transfers just get better access to OCI and firm recognition that the student will graduate with a T14 degree.

I'm not exactly sure what this means. Sometimes transfers are more highly regarded than a median student at the transfer school - as in employers consider information about the school they came from? Or they are treated worse than median students?

That is exactly what it means. You may be treated better than a median candidate or . . . worse. Just as it says.
Not to mention, median students at a lot of T14's right now are not very competitive for jobs through OCI.

I don't know why it is a shock that employers will look at your previous grades or consider them in hiring. It is not like your slate is clean when you get to OCI at a new school.

[rando]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

Except for more debt and no LR (sure you can write on but just so you know, a transfer writing on to LR is unlikely). I am no expert but I think your odds at snagging a job through OCI are about even at whichever school you attend now. I know two transfers from my school that went to MVP and struck out at OCI last fall, one of which I am sure would have been a sure thing for a job had she not transferred.

[interalia]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

Except for more debt and no LR (sure you can write on but just so you know, a transfer writing on to LR is unlikely). I am no expert but I think your odds at snagging a job through OCI are about even at whichever school you attend now. I know two transfers from my school that went to MVP and struck out at OCI last fall, one of which I am sure would have been a sure thing for a job had she not transferred.

A sure thing for a regional job in your school's region or for whatever market she targeted at the MVPB school?

[rando]

Transfer Manye and stop playing!! There are simply too many advantages to transferring compared to staying.

None of your options are 100% job guaranteed but the T14 seems to edge out in terms of every category including job placement. ITE I would not turn down a chance to be in the safer half of the rankings.

Except for more debt and no LR (sure you can write on but just so you know, a transfer writing on to LR is unlikely). I am no expert but I think your odds at snagging a job through OCI are about even at whichever school you attend now. I know two transfers from my school that went to MVP and struck out at OCI last fall, one of which I am sure would have been a sure thing for a job had she not transferred.

A sure thing for a regional job in your school's region or for whatever market she targeted at the MVPB school?

A sure thing for ATL (secondary) vs. transferring and OCI mostly for NY. I will say that she mentioned to me that the new school's career services discouraged them from applying back "home" in ATL because those firms would not look highly on the transfer out of the region.