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[flightcontrol]

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[ToTransferOrNot]

Agreed. The only class I skippped last semester had a supplement written by the professor, which I read religiously. Class is the place you learn the most, IMO

Same. Bankruptcy supplement written by bankruptcy prof made prep for the class itself fairly redundant.

[kittenmittons]

This thread served a valuable purpose: 24 of you have been outed as mentally disabled.

[MellonCollie]

This thread served a valuable purpose: 24 of you have been outed as mentally disabled.

I really don't get it. You go to professional school to get the job that you want. This dude is in a position to get any job that he would want. Is some more amorphous "brand" that may or may not help you in 30 years worth more than concrete advantages over the next decade?

[apper123]

nvm im dumb

[Unemployed]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that you are close ranked #1 or 2? Do they rank students at NYU?

[270910]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that you are close ranked #1 or 2? Do they rank students at NYU?

OP has already responded about this. Most top schools don't rank (do any?) but with a certain combination of grades and certain other pieces of statistical and anecdotal evidence it can become pretty clear. At my school, for example, usually less than ~15 people get more than a 3.8, and people with good grades are more likely to talk.

[agathon360]

So OP has mentioned twice that HLS is "kind of miserable" - would you be willing to elaborate a bit, either in a post or by PM?

[Unemployed]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that you are close ranked #1 or 2? Do they rank students at NYU?

OP has already responded about this. Most top schools don't rank (do any?) but with a certain combination of grades and certain other pieces of statistical and anecdotal evidence it can become pretty clear. At my school, for example, usually less than ~15 people get more than a 3.8, and people with good grades are more likely to talk.

I wish I had in-house sources...

[edcrane]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that you are close ranked #1 or 2? Do they rank students at NYU?

No, they don't. But they usually only give out 1 A+ per class, and this can be pretty random. If you have a 4.2 or better, odds are that you're #1 or #2 in the class.

[Lawl Shcool]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that you are close ranked #1 or 2? Do they rank students at NYU?

No, they don't. But they usually only give out 1 A+ per class, and this can be pretty random. If you have a 4.2 or better, odds are that you're #1 or #2 in the class.

TITCR

[XxSpyKEx]

The one warning I will give: Don't take the "taking it easy" bit too far. After Fall 1L, I've been testing how far I could go with the whole "not working and still do well" bit. I think I finally pushed it too far this quarter--missed a few classes for the first time, and didn't do the majority of the assigned reading. We'll see what happens, but the thing I would say is: make sure you at least skim all of the reading for class, but the most important thing: always GO to class. You can learn a lot via osmosis--and, more importantly, it is the only way to get a sense of what issues the professor thinks are important. That gives key insight on what is going to be tested.

Don't worry about it. I didn't read a single page after marbury v. madison last semester in my con law class (so basically I read nothing after the first week), didn't read any supplements, spent a total of 16 hours on the class the entire semester (except for a 7 day crunch period right before the exam). I took the class pass/fail and was pretty heavily worried about failing it, but when I went in to take a look at the exam this semester the prof said I would have been at the median if I had taken it for a grade. I really have no idea what the half of the class that fell below me must've been doing all semester because I felt like I couldn't possibly have done much less. I definitely agree with the go to class part, that's pretty much 95% of all I do in law school after my first semester (which was my worst).

[ToTransferOrNot]

If only we had pass/fail classes here.

I know I'll get median. Honestly, I'm not worried about that at this point. When I say I pushed it too far, I mean that I think I might have killed my shot at summa--which, given that UChi only gives summa once every few years, I'll be annoyed if I take myself out of the running.

That and K&E scholar--just because I want to shove it in their faces.

Plus, I'm trying to clerk, but I'll only do it if I can get a judge in Chicago, or Eastern/Western district of Wisconsin. 7th circuit CoA will only be possible for me if I'm summa (b/c no law review, and only a secondary ed board position on a secondary journal.) Even the 7th circuit district courts are really competative. If I had done well in bankruptcy, I know I could get a bankruptcy judge clerkship--but if I don't do well in bankruptcy, not only do I lose my shot at that, but I'll also screw up one of my very good LoRs for clerkships in general. So yeah, my failure to actually do anything this quarter, without a hell of a lot of luck=clerkship hopes pretty much dead.

If I do end up doing well this quarter, it is proof that law school is retarded. +1 to "how can people possibly be so bad," though. Last year's bankruptcy exam had a score range of something like FIFTEEN points to 280. I mean.. really? Fifteen?

[XxSpyKEx]

If only we had pass/fail classes here.

. UChi sounds a little too intense for me. We get to pass/fail almost an entire year of courses if we want latin honors, and it's basically uncapped otherwise. (The exception is 1L courses for non-transfer students, which require a grade.)

I know I'll get median. Honestly, I'm not worried about that at this point.

Well, it sounds like you put in more then 16 hours all semester and did some of the reading. So that's gotta be good for at least an A- or so, lol. And yeah, 15 out of 280 points at UChi is pretty ridiculous. I wonder if the guy only showed up for the final exam, and took some peyote the night before.

[ToTransferOrNot]

We also don't get credit for journal or moot court, for what it's worth. Oh, or for externships of any kind.

As far as the 16 hour line... if that counts class attendance, then yeah. Otherwise... not so much.

Anyway, sorry for derailing your thread OP.

[tinman]

Thanks all. I got lucky this semester and have no idea how well I'll do in the future. Here's hoping though.

It's flattering you all keep mentioning SCOTUS, but that's a shot in a million (probably going down to zero if I transfer, given I'd have no time to make faculty connections) and I don't want to decide anything based on that. More importantly, though, it sounds like y'all think a magna degree from CCN is near the level of H/Y, so from that perspective it sounds like I've got little to gain. My profs have suggested that my exit opportunities, particularly w/r/t clerking, are more important than the "brand" for a political career years down the road.

Have any of you tried negotiating scholarships? Mine is modest, and I'm not really sure how to approach the subject. Should I wait until my grades come in and file a transfer app? Or should I just start talking to admins now, in case my grades go down?

I'm going to buck the tide and say you should definitely go to Yale. Graduating #1 or 2 at CCN would be great. But as you yourself have indicated, it is far from guaranteed. What if your rank falls at CCN, which it is almost guaranteed to do (it's can't go up)? What then?

Further, everyone seems to write as if your transferring to Yale would erase the fantastic work you have done your first semester at CCN. It will not. Judges will see how well you did your first semester and be impressed (if you want top COA or SCOTUS). If fact, you will likely have a leg up on the rest of us the Yalies who have no grades from first semester: your first year grades will indicate your quality.

Yes, you will be giving up law review at CCN. But I think this is a small sacrifice. I know people in the running for SCOTUS with top COA clerkships lined up for next year who were not on journal here.

Also, especially if you are coming from CLS or NYU, you can still work with some of your CCN professors during your 2L year and ask them for recommendations. It is absurdly easy to do independent study projects at YLS (and with them there is much less risk of doing poorly in a real class and tarnishing your relationship with your CCN professor).

On second thought, stay at CCN. I'm here at YLS and would prefer not to have more competition for clerkships. CCN is definitely the right call. I'm sure you will graduate #1 and make SCOTUS. It's basically guaranteed to anyone with all As first semester at CCN. The 3 additional semesters that matter for COA and 5 more that matter for SCOTUS should be smooth sailing for you.

[solidsnake]

On second thought, stay at CCN. I'm here at YLS and would prefer not to have more competition for clerkships. CCN is definitely the right call. I'm sure you will graduate #1 and make SCOTUS. It's basically guaranteed to anyone with all As first semester at CCN. The 3 additional semesters that matter for COA and 5 more that matter for SCOTUS should be smooth sailing for you.

Ahh, classical liberalism at its finest.

[XxSpyKEx]

On second thought, stay at CCN. I'm here at YLS and would prefer not to have more competition for clerkships. CCN is definitely the right call. I'm sure you will graduate #1 and make SCOTUS. It's basically guaranteed to anyone with all As first semester at CCN. The 3 additional semesters that matter for COA and 5 more that matter for SCOTUS should be smooth sailing for you.

LOL. This entire forum kinda cracks me up because people make decisions on where to transfer based on their first semester grades alone as if they were going to remain perfectly static next semester. Generally, people at the top of their class stay at the top of their class. However, assuming that you will be able to graduate at #1 or 2 based on solely one semester of grades is absurd. Luck tends to factor into grades to some at least uncontrollable amount. If you are #1 or #2 right now, I can definitely see the possibility of graduating in the top 5%-10%, and that would be a reasonable assumption to make your decision on (i.e. would you rather be top 5-10% at CCN or at Yale at graduation). However, making your decision based on assuming you can graduate #1 or #2 in your class at a school like CCN is insane.

[Bankhead]

I'd still rather be top 5-10% at CCN... those schools still vet the top. People at Yale and Harvard go to Yale and Harvard so they don't have to undergo the battery that is achieving top 5-10% at CCN... OP has already done that, so I don't see any need to transfer.

[johndoe]

There's really not that much of a difference between Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and NYU, or even the rest of the T14. All schools have very similar median LSAT scores. I'm sure there's plenty of people with higher LSAT scores at Columbia than at Yale. Anyone who categorically considers all Yale students to be "better" than all Columbia or NYU students is making a foolish generalization.

To answer the OP's question - I think transferring wouldn't give you much of an advantage at all. Assuming you finish your 1st year in the top 5-10% of your class at your current school - will you be able to get a merit based scholarship over your last 2 years?

[flightcontrol]

. . .

[tinman]

There's really not that much of a difference between Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and NYU, or even the rest of the T14. All schools have very similar median LSAT scores. I'm sure there's plenty of people with higher LSAT scores at Columbia than at Yale. Anyone who categorically considers all Yale students to be "better" than all Columbia or NYU students is making a foolish generalization.

To answer the OP's question - I think transferring wouldn't give you much of an advantage at all. Assuming you finish your 1st year in the top 5-10% of your class at your current school - will you be able to get a merit based scholarship over your last 2 years?

Of course all Yale students are not "better" than all CCN students. But I don't think that looking at median LSAT scores tells the whole story. Yale is full of people who have earned Rhodes Sholarships and Ph.D., who have started NGOs, who have run campaigns or business, who have published books and scholarly articles. Someone with a 174 and a 3.9 who went to HYP for undergrad and completed a Rhodes Scholarship is, in mind eyes, significantly different if not statistically different than a 174 and a 3.9 coming straight from a top state school. But different how? Morally superior? No. Smarter? No. Older? Yes. More experienced? Probably. Better "connected"? Likely. Perhaps the HYP person is destined to do less. Perhaps his/r best years are behind them. But I don't think you should underestimate the power of these impressive softs that swell the ranks at Yale.

Most people go on to work at big firms. It is true. And for that, CCN is just as good, IMO. I think the real value of Yale is knowing those people who have done amazing things before law school and will do amazing things afterward. Many will work at high levels in the government, will become influential professors, will start more non-profits, will run for office, will become judges. I think it's worth going to class with such people even if they never help you get a job or if you end up with the same firm job after your years at Yale than after your years at CCN.

There are truly amazing people at every school. Are their some people at Georgetown more amazing than most of the people at CCN? of course. Will people from CCN get amazing non-firm jobs? Of course. But Yale has a higher density of people bound for creative inspiring careers. And Yale's unique environment fosters this spirit in its students and its mystic helps clear the paths for you as you blaze your own trail.

Again, most of us will end up as corporate lawyers. But I do not think that big life decisions should be made by looking at median LSATS or projected incomes five years out of school. To me, that would be like measuring the quality of a book by how many words it has or how many copies it sells (or even how smart the author is). It just strikes me as the wrong way to think about life.

[flightcontrol]

. . .

[HJO]

+1 million to the "how to do well" advice in the last thread--manages to articulate my battle plan pretty well, and we're in similar spots as far as class rank goes (though I suppose my #1-in-the-class at UChi only kind of counts, since I skipped out on 1L, and will probably change after this cluster-f of a quarter).

The one warning I will give: Don't take the "taking it easy" bit too far. After Fall 1L, I've been testing how far I could go with the whole "not working and still do well" bit. I think I finally pushed it too far this quarter--missed a few classes for the first time, and didn't do the majority of the assigned reading. We'll see what happens, but the thing I would say is: make sure you at least skim all of the reading for class, but the most important thing: always GO to class. You can learn a lot via osmosis--and, more importantly, it is the only way to get a sense of what issues the professor thinks are important. That gives key insight on what is going to be tested.

I didn't think this was what people meant when they said they were taking it easy.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Actually, doing the readings thoroughly is one of the first things to go for a lot of people--and, honestly, it's because the readings tend to be less and less useful as you go throughout law school (outside of seminar classes, anyway). On an hour-for-hour use of time basis, I would say that I'm to the point where Attending class > Discussing issues with prof in office hours that I didn't fully pick up on in class > E&E work > discussions with peers >>>>> assigned readings.