Official Columbia Transfer Thread Forum

[iheartlaw]

i have a question. on my application status there is a green check mark next to everything. yet my status is still incomplete. does anyone know or understand why this is the case? I noticed under Letters of Recommendation there is no green check mark- but there is a box right below it that has my 2 LOR's from my profs and those have green check marks. Thanks.

[samiseaborn]

Did you get a 'complete' email? I figured that was the most important thing to worry about.

[iheartlaw]

i actually did not. but i guess i can wait a few more days before I start hounding them. unless you guys think it's prudent to call them and inquire about the status?

[Machine Spirit]

i actually did not. but i guess i can wait a few more days before I start hounding them. unless you guys think it's prudent to call them and inquire about the status?

Call tomorrow. Waiting a few days would be ludicrous at this point.

[iheartlaw]

yeah you are right. i will call tomorrow- thanks for the advice machine.

[ZXCVBNM]

rejected

and do you mind sharing your stats?

top 1-2% at fordham but part-time program which i think made a big difference. not sure if i would have went anyway. received a letter in the mail. happy to stay with LR and top grades at this point.

[Bankhead]

There will probably be more rejections tomorrow; the difference being ZXC is in NY so the mail is quicker for him.

[OperaSoprano]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process. Another word about my classmate might risk outing him, but a full time student with his qualifications would certainly get one of HYS. There is no justifiable reason for his rejection at CLS, and he is not the only part time student with an astronomical GPA to face this situation. The school claims to evaluate part time students' applications on a case by case basis. It's difficult to refute such a statement, but I am now convinced it's a euphemism for "we would like your application fee, but you won't be getting in."

I am not very happy with the Columbia admissions office for playing games, but I am happy for my classmate that he'll be staying and kicking ass here at Fordham.

[luthersloan]

Not sure your conclusion follows. I have almost the same class rank at a peer school and I am a full time student. I was rejected by Harvard today and I expect to be rejected by Columbia as well based on the amount of time they have taken with my application. I am fairly sure they do probably discount part time students somewhat, but that conclusion certainly does not follow from this one data point.

[Machine Spirit]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process.

Your use of the word "discriminate" seems unnecessarily charged, but I suppose should be expected considering you obviously don't like that your friend was slighted. Regardless, a school not giving the same consideration to a PT student as they do a full-time student doesn't seem terribly incorrect. The former, regardless of individual ability or intelligence, is not traditionally faced with the same demands/competition of the latter.

[b1ue]

-

[luthersloan]

The use of the word is certainly correct. The word "discriminate" has a strangely negative connotation in modern discourses. After all the whole admissions process is an act of discrimination, differentiating the applicants into the ones the admissions committee thinks are best qualified from those that are not. I think the word has essential come to mean, separating or treating differently without cause.

[ZXCVBNM]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process. Another word about my classmate might risk outing him, but a full time student with his qualifications would certainly get one of HYS. There is no justifiable reason for his rejection at CLS, and he is not the only part time student with an astronomical GPA to face this situation. The school claims to evaluate part time students' applications on a case by case basis. It's difficult to refute such a statement, but I am now convinced it's a euphemism for "we would like your application fee, but you won't be getting in."

I am not very happy with the Columbia admissions office for playing games, but I am happy for my classmate that he'll be staying and kicking ass here at Fordham.

Thanks for sticking up for me

[traydeuce]

Speaking of making inferences from how long they've sat with your application, can I infer a rejection from having gone complete on Wednesday night and not having been admitted yet? Or is that too short a window to make that inference?

[OperaSoprano]

Not sure your conclusion follows. I have almost the same class rank at a peer school and I am a full time student. I was rejected by Harvard today and I expect to be rejected by Columbia as well based on the amount of time they have taken with my application. I am fairly sure they do probably discount part time students somewhat, but that conclusion certainly does not follow from this one data point.

The data suggests that top 5% full time students at Fordham generally are accepted at Columbia. We see top 1-3% people from local T2 and T3 schools making it in, as well. CLS has a large transfer class, usually above 50 people. If you are top 1-2% at one of Fordham's peer schools, and you applied in a timely fashion, given rolling deadlines, CLS is a reasonable target. ZXCVBNM is not the only part time student at Fordham to have had this experience, however. I don't know that there is any way to offer up incontestable proof of discrimination, but all the evidence points in that direction.

[OperaSoprano]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process.

Your use of the word "discriminate" seems unnecessarily charged, but I suppose should be expected considering you obviously don't like that your friend was slighted. Regardless, a school not giving the same consideration to a PT student as they do a full-time student doesn't seem terribly incorrect. The former, regardless of individual ability or intelligence, is not traditionally faced with the same demands/competition of the latter.

I respectfully have to disagree with you. Every student's situation is different, but many PT students are juggling jobs, internships, families (one friend has two children under the age of five) and other responsibilities that most full time students do not have. It's true that not every part time student works or interns. I worked part time, and in terms of hours, put in as much time between my job and my classes as any of my full time friends did. I know firsthand what the balance was like, and I hardly had the worst of it. Someone working 40 hours a week and taking LS classes faces far more difficulty and competition than the average full time student. At Fordham, part time students take one class under a full time course load. That's the sole concession.

My use of the word discriminate is warranted here. There is plenty of data on yahoo transfer apps to indicate that full time students in the top 1-2% of the class at Fordham are generally admitted to Columbia.

This is an academic discussion, though, because I'm glad he's staying, and I think it was a good choice on his part not to pursue other transfer options.

[OperaSoprano]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process. Another word about my classmate might risk outing him, but a full time student with his qualifications would certainly get one of HYS. There is no justifiable reason for his rejection at CLS, and he is not the only part time student with an astronomical GPA to face this situation. The school claims to evaluate part time students' applications on a case by case basis. It's difficult to refute such a statement, but I am now convinced it's a euphemism for "we would like your application fee, but you won't be getting in."

I am not very happy with the Columbia admissions office for playing games, but I am happy for my classmate that he'll be staying and kicking ass here at Fordham.

Thanks for sticking up for me

Of course! This was very far from being any reflection on you, and I wanted to set the record straight.

[A'nold]

Not sure your conclusion follows. I have almost the same class rank at a peer school and I am a full time student. I was rejected by Harvard today and I expect to be rejected by Columbia as well based on the amount of time they have taken with my application. I am fairly sure they do probably discount part time students somewhat, but that conclusion certainly does not follow from this one data point.

The data suggests that top 5% full time students at Fordham generally are accepted at Columbia. We see top 1-3% people from local T2 and T3 schools making it in, as well. CLS has a large transfer class, usually above 50 people. If you are top 1-2% at one of Fordham's peer schools, and you applied in a timely fashion, given rolling deadlines, CLS is a reasonable target. ZXCVBNM is not the only part time student at Fordham to have had this experience, however. I don't know that there is any way to offer up incontestable proof of discrimination, but all the evidence points in that direction.

TITCR. I'm sick of peeps on this site demanding 100%, concrete data before they would ever even consider that a school possesses an ulterior motive. Not to make this about me, but that's what happened when I discussed my school's horrific grading policy that was absolutely intended to crush scholly kids. Believe what you guys want, I guess, but, um, you do realize that "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't actually mean that a 1/1,000 chance makes something possible, right?

[Bankhead]

Before anyone speculates, I did not apply, but it's pretty clear CLS is discriminating against PT students in the transfer process. Another word about my classmate might risk outing him, but a full time student with his qualifications would certainly get one of HYS. There is no justifiable reason for his rejection at CLS, and he is not the only part time student with an astronomical GPA to face this situation. The school claims to evaluate part time students' applications on a case by case basis. It's difficult to refute such a statement, but I am now convinced it's a euphemism for "we would like your application fee, but you won't be getting in."

I am not very happy with the Columbia admissions office for playing games, but I am happy for my classmate that he'll be staying and kicking ass here at Fordham.

[luthersloan]

Not sure your conclusion follows. I have almost the same class rank at a peer school and I am a full time student. I was rejected by Harvard today and I expect to be rejected by Columbia as well based on the amount of time they have taken with my application. I am fairly sure they do probably discount part time students somewhat, but that conclusion certainly does not follow from this one data point.

The data suggests that top 5% full time students at Fordham generally are accepted at Columbia. We see top 1-3% people from local T2 and T3 schools making it in, as well. CLS has a large transfer class, usually above 50 people. If you are top 1-2% at one of Fordham's peer schools, and you applied in a timely fashion, given rolling deadlines, CLS is a reasonable target. ZXCVBNM is not the only part time student at Fordham to have had this experience, however. I don't know that there is any way to offer up incontestable proof of discrimination, but all the evidence points in that direction.

TITCR. I'm sick of peeps on this site demanding 100%, concrete data before they would ever even consider that a school possesses an ulterior motive. Not to make this about me, but that's what happened when I discussed my school's horrific grading policy that was absolutely intended to crush scholly kids. Believe what you guys want, I guess, but, um, you do realize that "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't actually mean that a 1/1,000 chance makes something possible, right?

My point was not to demand proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but to suggest that a single data point is not enough to support any reasonable conclusion, particularly insight of the counter single data point I offered. I would be rather surprised if the school did not discriminate against part time students. I was simply pointing out that a single data point does not support that conclusion. Also, there discrimination is not likely motivated by some ulterior motive. It is not like the case of your school section packing to save money, but a rather a debatable way of evaluating transfer applicants.

[OperaSoprano]

Not sure your conclusion follows. I have almost the same class rank at a peer school and I am a full time student. I was rejected by Harvard today and I expect to be rejected by Columbia as well based on the amount of time they have taken with my application. I am fairly sure they do probably discount part time students somewhat, but that conclusion certainly does not follow from this one data point.

The data suggests that top 5% full time students at Fordham generally are accepted at Columbia. We see top 1-3% people from local T2 and T3 schools making it in, as well. CLS has a large transfer class, usually above 50 people. If you are top 1-2% at one of Fordham's peer schools, and you applied in a timely fashion, given rolling deadlines, CLS is a reasonable target. ZXCVBNM is not the only part time student at Fordham to have had this experience, however. I don't know that there is any way to offer up incontestable proof of discrimination, but all the evidence points in that direction.

TITCR. I'm sick of peeps on this site demanding 100%, concrete data before they would ever even consider that a school possesses an ulterior motive. Not to make this about me, but that's what happened when I discussed my school's horrific grading policy that was absolutely intended to crush scholly kids. Believe what you guys want, I guess, but, um, you do realize that "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't actually mean that a 1/1,000 chance makes something possible, right?

My point was not to demand proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but to suggest that a single data point is not enough to support any reasonable conclusion, particularly insight of the counter single data point I offered. I would be rather surprised if the school did not discriminate against part time students. I was simply pointing out that a single data point does not support that conclusion. Also, there discrimination is not likely motivated by some ulterior motive. It is not like the case of your school section packing to save money, but a rather a debatable way of evaluating transfer applicants.

We have more than a single data point. This claim could certainly not be made based upon the experience of one student, but an identifiable pattern exists that I wanted to point out. There are some law schools which state explicitly that they will not take part time transfer students. CLS did not do this. My objection is to disingenuous statements made by the school regarding the transfer chances of part time students. I believe that "evaluation on a case by case basis" is a discriminatory standard to begin with, because it involves attempting to pick and choose which part time students had a justifiable or worthy reason to attend part time. There are many such reasons, and not all would be readily apparent from a transfer application. Part time students are not somehow inherently less qualified than their full time classmates, which such a standard suggests. Going forward under this policy, it is impossible to prove that an individual should or should not have met this subjective standard, but if anyone was objectively qualified for admission to CLS, a part time student at the very, very top of our class (I can't say more) ought to have been so qualified. I say this is true regardless of my classmate's reasons for attending part time. Being top 1 to 2% at Fordham is one hell of an achievement.

I believe the school should have been forthright about my classmate's chances, giving him basis to decide whether to spend the application fee. Fordham is supportive and appreciative of top students, and as I've said, I think his staying will work out for the best.

[luthersloan]

I am sure you do have more data, my comment was simply addressed to your original post, which referred to only one. I agree schools should be honest about an applicants chances. I mean, taken literally, all applicants in the transfer process are review on a case by case basis. Only maybe Gtown admits so many people that it does not even bother to look beyond the numbers. I am not entirely sure "objective qualified" means anything in this context. After all admissions decision are a function of the quality and nature of the applicant pool. This is participially true in transfers applications where the number of spots often varies, as does the number of students looking to change law schools. I agree being top 1% or 2% at Fordham is quite an accomplishment. Nevertheless, I tend to think that since Admissions committees are professionals in the business of evaluating prospective students, they probably know more then most of us do about what makes a good transfer student.

[OperaSoprano]

I am sure you do have more data, my comment was simply addressed to your original post, which referred to only one. I agree schools should be honest about an applicants chances. I mean, taken literally, all applicants in the transfer process are review on a case by case basis. Only maybe Gtown admits so many people that it does not even bother to look beyond the numbers. I am not entirely sure "objective qualified" means anything in this context. After all admissions decision are a function of the quality and nature of the applicant pool. This is participially true in transfers applications where the number of spots often varies, as does the number of students looking to change law schools. I agree being top 1% or 2% at Fordham is quite an accomplishment. Nevertheless, I tend to think that since Admissions committees are professionals in the business of evaluating prospective students, they probably know more then most of us do about what makes a good transfer student.

I agree with you, insofar as all transfer students are evaluated on a case by case basis, in the larger sense. The implication of the phrase here, however, is that part time students are held to different, stricter standards. I have been closely involved in the transfer process, though I'm not personally going anywhere, and I merely comment on what I've seen. I'm obviously not an adcomm! It's hard for me to imagine how exactly my classmate's PT status could make him so much less qualified than full time students at our school that it would effectively remove him, and other PT students, from the running, or at least severely limit chances of admission.

Data is objective, and a look at the school's past behavior suggests that someone with these grades almost certainly would have gotten in, if a full time student. I don't mean to be argumentative (a fine trait for a future lawyer, lol), but this type of bias will coax an unusually strong opinion from me.

[Machine Spirit]

I respectfully have to disagree with you. Every student's situation is different, but many PT students are juggling jobs, internships, families (one friend has two children under the age of five) and other responsibilities that most full time students do not have. It's true that not every part time student works or interns. I worked part time, and in terms of hours, put in as much time between my job and my classes as any of my full time friends did. I know firsthand what the balance was like, and I hardly had the worst of it. Someone working 40 hours a week and taking LS classes faces far more difficulty and competition than the average full time student. At Fordham, part time students take one class under a full time course load. That's the sole concession.

I understand where you're coming from, I just suppose you and I have a different interpretation over whether this form of "discrimination" is actually wrong. Part time students are accepted into schools with numbers that are lower than full time students. They are placed into sections of other part time students, who yes, have to obviously juggle other daily tasks such as jobs. However, their workload is traditionally lower, and more importantly, they're graded on a curve within their section against other part time students. Frankly, getting an A in a class of part-timers is generally going to be less challenging than getting that same grade in a law school class of full-time students. It's just a different selection of people.

Because of that, PT GPA or rank may often appear skewed, and admissions councils take into consideration the differing challenges/competition between PTs and full-timers. You call it "discrimination," I call it awareness. Again though, I understand where you're coming from, and can see why many would likely agree with you.

[apper123]

something like this could only ever happen on a board filled with law students