Am I crazy for considering staying? UF vs. Harvard Forum

[igo2northwestern]

I can't comment on Florida legal hiring. However, if I was #1 in my class and had a Harvard acceptance in hand, and my school told me they "didn't have enough money" I would be out the door. Play hardball and get your full-ride. If not go have fun in Cambridge.

I agree with this poster that it's a load of BS that they're not upping your scholarship.

[speedtracer]

I can't comment on Florida legal hiring. However, if I was #1 in my class and had a Harvard acceptance in hand, and my school told me they "didn't have enough money" I would be out the door. Play hardball and get your full-ride. If not go have fun in Cambridge.

I agree with this poster that it's a load of BS that they're not upping your scholarship.

Right? It shouldn't be, but it kind of is a mark against the school to me.

[JCougar]

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

I'm not so sure about this. They're both just lines on your resume in 5 years, and each is pretty prestigious. The former might actually be more impressive if OP really wants to just stay in Florida. I used to live in FL...I know people that turned down a UF acceptance and left the state to go to a more prestigious school that wish they would have just stayed in FL. FL is full of UF alumni at every Biglaw firm and probably a plurality (if not outright majority) of judges on the bench.

They're close enough to being even where the extra $$ you have to pay to Harvard might make just staying at FL better.

I doubt you will get any extra scholarship money though. Most law schools don't give too much of a shit if you transfer out, because they'll transfer in another student that doesn't have any scholarship at all and make more money for the next two years. My school didn't give out extra $$ to convince people to stay. It's not all that unusual to not get a $$ hike.

[speedtracer]

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

I'm not so sure about this. They're both just lines on your resume in 5 years, and each is pretty prestigious. The former might actually be more impressive if OP really wants to just stay in Florida. I used to live in FL...I know people that turned down a UF acceptance and left the state to go to a more prestigious school that wish they would have just stayed in FL. FL is full of UF alumni at every Biglaw firm and probably a plurality (if not outright majority) of judges on the bench.

They're close enough to being even where the extra $$ you have to pay to Harvard might make just staying at FL better.

I doubt you will get any extra scholarship money though. Most law schools don't give too much of a shit if you transfer out, because they'll transfer in another student that doesn't have any scholarship at all and make more money for the next two years. My school didn't give out extra $$ to convince people to stay. It's not all that unusual to not get a $$ hike.

Yeah, one thing I've learned - at some law schools, you're just a number. I don't mean that you're one of n students there, as is the case at large undergrad schools. I mean that some law schools offer merit-based scholarships in order to buy your LSAT and uGPA numbers. After that, they don't care if you drop out a week later. They've got those numbers and can report them for the purposes of boosting their ranking. That's why schools like UF will fail ultimately, and why rising schools like FSU, which I have anecdotal evidence does try to retain transfers, will succeed. I'm not saying that to be arrogant - "I can't believe THIS SCHOOL doesn't value ME?!?!?! Screw them, I'm leaving!" I mean in the sense that generally, you'd think that schools would want to retain their transfer students in order to promote their brand down the line. Of course, as one professor here said to me, by that point, the current dean will be dead, so what does he care?

This whole ranking system is nonsense.

[igo2northwestern]

I know people that turned down a UF acceptance and left the state to go to a more prestigious school that wish they would have just stayed in FL. FL is full of UF alumni at every Biglaw firm and probably a plurality (if not outright majority) of judges on the bench.

How much more prestigious are we talking here? T25? T14? Or was it HYS? Because I can see someone regretting T25, maybe even T14, but I'd be surprised if someone regretted an HYS transfer after the fact.

[NYSprague]

truth is, no one is going to give a shit you were #1 at UF ... people will care that you went to harvard.

I'm not so sure about this. They're both just lines on your resume in 5 years, and each is pretty prestigious. The former might actually be more impressive if OP really wants to just stay in Florida. I used to live in FL...I know people that turned down a UF acceptance and left the state to go to a more prestigious school that wish they would have just stayed in FL. FL is full of UF alumni at every Biglaw firm and probably a plurality (if not outright majority) of judges on the bench.

They're close enough to being even where the extra $$ you have to pay to Harvard might make just staying at FL better.

I doubt you will get any extra scholarship money though. Most law schools don't give too much of a shit if you transfer out, because they'll transfer in another student that doesn't have any scholarship at all and make more money for the next two years. My school didn't give out extra $$ to convince people to stay. It's not all that unusual to not get a $$ hike.

Yeah, one thing I've learned - at some law schools, you're just a number. I don't mean that you're one of n students there, as is the case at large undergrad schools. I mean that some law schools offer merit-based scholarships in order to buy your LSAT and uGPA numbers. After that, they don't care if you drop out a week later. They've got those numbers and can report them for the purposes of boosting their ranking. That's why schools like UF will fail ultimately, and why rising schools like FSU, which I have anecdotal evidence does try to retain transfers, will succeed. I'm not saying that to be arrogant - "I can't believe THIS SCHOOL doesn't value ME?!?!?! Screw them, I'm leaving!" I mean in the sense that generally, you'd think that schools would want to retain their transfer students in order to promote their brand down the line. Of course, as one professor here said to me, by that point, the current dean will be dead, so what does he care?

This whole ranking system is nonsense.

You sound very naive. Admissions job is the marketing of the school, not creating the best class. The Deans job is keeping the reputation of the school up to get more kids to apply. The likelihood any one alumni will impact positively the schools reputation is small.

If I were you, I would transfer, except for the debt. You can stay friends with people.

I don't know for certain you are big law secure. Florida seems like a tiny market. What if your SA goes badly for you? If something goes wrong here, what will you do?

[rad lulz]

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[heavoldgotjuice]

Our incessant bickering has probably not made op's choice any easier. I'm just curious as to what he decides.

I would vote for him to go to Harvard, but I think he's going to choose uf. My vote has been cast

[Cicero76]

I want him to choose Harvard mainly so that UF gets punished for their parsimonious idiocy

[heavoldgotjuice]

For what it's worth, I am top 1% at a private school in south fl and was only offered 40% scholarship. Tried asking for more and they straight up laughed and smirked. Accepted gulc and was offered over 50% need based aid

[Nebby]

OP, transfer to HLS.

[withoutapaddle]

OP what did you decide?????????

What if in two years you change your mind, and you want to pratice in NYC, DC, LA. You will then regret not going to Harvard.

[foundingfather]

OP, out of curiosity, what was your undergrad GPA/LSAT? Would you have been accepted to Harvard as a 0L?

And congratulations. You must feel very accomplished regardless of which choice you make

[toothbrush]

OP, out of curiosity, what was your undergrad GPA/LSAT? Would you have been accepted to Harvard as a 0L?

really? he didn't get a full ride to UF and you think he would have been accepted to HLS? not trying to be an ass but ... ?

[foundingfather]

OP, out of curiosity, what was your undergrad GPA/LSAT? Would you have been accepted to Harvard as a 0L?

really? he didn't get a full ride to UF and you think he would have been accepted to HLS? not trying to be an ass but ... ?

doesn't hurt to ask

Edit:

The competition for transfer admission is high. Many successful transfer candidates typically place very near the top of their first-year law class and would have also been admitted or wait-listed as first-year students on the basis of their pre-law-school credentials.

[acr]

I would rather spend 50 years telling people "I could have been happy at Florida for 2 years" instead of "I could have gone to Harvard."

[rad lulz]

.

[rad lulz]

.

[randomstudent]

Yeah, one thing I've learned - at some law schools, you're just a number. I don't mean that you're one of n students there, as is the case at large undergrad schools. I mean that some law schools offer merit-based scholarships in order to buy your LSAT and uGPA numbers. After that, they don't care if you drop out a week later. They've got those numbers and can report them for the purposes of boosting their ranking. That's why schools like UF will fail ultimately, and why rising schools like FSU, which I have anecdotal evidence does try to retain transfers, will succeed. I'm not saying that to be arrogant - "I can't believe THIS SCHOOL doesn't value ME?!?!?! Screw them, I'm leaving!" I mean in the sense that generally, you'd think that schools would want to retain their transfer students in order to promote their brand down the line. Of course, as one professor here said to me, by that point, the current dean will be dead, so what does he care?

This whole ranking system is nonsense.

True, and unfortunate. At many schools, there seems to be something of a disconnect between the admission department and the rest of the school. Your professors may really want you to stay. The administration may really want you to stay. But the USNWR ranking system gives the admissions department no reason to throw more money at you, except, perhaps, to boost their post-grad employment stats.

[TooOld4This]

The thing is that for your second job, no one will care that you were number one at UF after your 1L year. They will care what you were ranked when you graduate. In skimming resumes, it is not uncommon to put some into the harder look file by school alone, and others only if the person has tip-top honors. Coasting at UF for the next two years is not an option, while OP could probably coast at Harvard.

If you look at my post history, I'm not a huge fan of taking out debt even for HYS. In this case, though I would lean toward transferring. OP does not have a full ride and is at a school with very spotty employment outcomes. Staying at number one is far from given and there are a lot of scenarios where OP could wind up in a bad spot. Harvard would significantly reduce the chance for a terrible outcome, for a price.

OP, make sure you aren't confusing comfort for happiness. Moving and starting a new social network is intimidating when you have successfully carved out a space you like. But do you really think you will be happier staying at UF than going to Harvard, or are you just not seeing past the next few months that will probably suck. In other words, does your analysis compare UF today with Harvard in the first few weeks, or do you really think you can't carve out a life that could be just as, if not more, enjoyable than the one you have now.

I don't think either decision is bad, but I would probably cash in on Harvard now rather than risk falling down in class rankings and maybe put into a bad spot come 3L or later.

[InRemington]

Choose your ending and then work backwards from it to make your current decision.

If it is Bondi's job you want then UF is the place. Follow the clearly established path from UF (or Stetson as it seems so prevalent in the AG's office) to private practice at HK or GT.

If its IP you want then UF is not the place.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Personally, I think this choice should be guided by what kind of career OP wants post-graduation, not his first job out. If his goal is biglaw IP in FL, then staying at UF is probably the best option. If OP wants to do things like clerk for federal judges, go into a career at FL AG, or teach (which was mentioned), Harvard is the better choice because of the relative scarcity of those positions. Whether OP goes to UF OCI or Harvard's EIP doesn't matter because he'll have the same grades regardless come August/September. So any discussion of going to Harvard and becoming median is pointless.

I'm going to join those who ITT have said that where you go to school has little impact on your possibilities for making partner or lateraling (within FL). Most law firms base their promotion decisions on your ability to deliver large quantity of high quality work, keep current clients happy, and bring in new clients. Not where you went to school. There are only a few firms that truly care that much about where you went to school that it influences their promotion decisions, and most of those are hyper-prestigious NYC or DC boutiques (note, not in FL).

I agree this is a really hard decision, and congratulations on both your stellar performance and on being accepted into HLS. My vote is for you to stay in FL. Assuming you have a STEM undergrad degree, and mix that with your #1 class rank at UF, you can get FL IP Biglaw no problem.

The reason I vote against Harvard is because it sounds like the kind of jobs you're looking at aren't the type you couldn't get out of UF at #1 class rank. If you had stated an interest in NYC biglaw or federal clerkships, I would have voted for Harvard.

[Ohiobumpkin]

If its IP you want then UF is not the place.

How so? They don't invent new things in Florida anymore?

[InRemington]

If OP wants to do things like clerk for federal judges, go into a career at FL AG, or teach (which was mentioned), Harvard is the better choice because of the relative scarcity of those positions.

I don't know what basis you have for indicating a career at FLA AG would benefit from Harvard. Every AG in Florida since 1971 (and likely before I didn't read them all) has gone to a Florida school, done the SAO etc....... none from Harvard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Attorney_General

[Ohiobumpkin]

If OP wants to do things like clerk for federal judges, go into a career at FL AG, or teach (which was mentioned), Harvard is the better choice because of the relative scarcity of those positions.

I don't know what basis you have for indicating a career at FLA AG would benefit from Harvard. Every AG in Florida since 1971 (and likely before I didn't read them all) has gone to a Florida school, done the SAO etc....... none from Harvard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Attorney_General

Sorry, meant Federal prosecutor in Florida.