WUSTL Class of 2013 Forum

[ENGINEERD]

Does anyone know the out of state bar passage rate for WUSTL?? I cant seem to find it.

Also, Romo I didn't realize you are a Wash U guy I am surprised you didn't advise me to pick WUSTL!

[panadera]

Anyone get the SNR email and/or thinking about doing it?

I got it but I don't think I'll apply. I know I don't qualify as socio-economically disadvantaged, and I don't really think pre-law prep programs are particularly helpful. Anyone considering it?

I didn't get this email! What does it say?

Oh, I completely glazed over the socio-economic part. I read it as "don't worry about money friends, it's free because we want people here even if they can't afford it!" If we have to fill a certain qualification in that regard, I wouldn't be considered.

I don't quite know how I feel about it, whether applying would be worthwhile or not.

Steph- its a two week program put on by a STL (and global) law firm to help students get ready for law school with mock classes, and various activities.

[jks289]

Anyone get the SNR email and/or thinking about doing it?

I got it but I don't think I'll apply. I know I don't qualify as socio-economically disadvantaged, and I don't really think pre-law prep programs are particularly helpful. Anyone considering it?

I didn't get this email! What does it say?

Oh, I completely glazed over the socio-economic part. I read it as "don't worry about money friends, it's free because we want people here even if they can't afford it!" If we have to fill a certain qualification in that regard, I wouldn't be considered.

I don't quite know how I feel about it, whether applying would be worthwhile or not.

Steph- its a two week program put on by a STL (and global) law firm to help students get ready for law school with mock classes, and various activities.

End of paragraph one:

The program, which is being offered at no cost, is designed to help students who have experienced socio-economic challenges prepare for the rigors of law school.

The application asks you to elaborate on your hardship.

[panadera]

I got it but I don't think I'll apply. I know I don't qualify as socio-economically disadvantaged, and I don't really think pre-law prep programs are particularly helpful. Anyone considering it?

I didn't get this email! What does it say?

Oh, I completely glazed over the socio-economic part. I read it as "don't worry about money friends, it's free because we want people here even if they can't afford it!" If we have to fill a certain qualification in that regard, I wouldn't be considered.

I don't quite know how I feel about it, whether applying would be worthwhile or not.

Steph- its a two week program put on by a STL (and global) law firm to help students get ready for law school with mock classes, and various activities.

End of paragraph one:

The program, which is being offered at no cost, is designed to help students who have experienced socio-economic challenges prepare for the rigors of law school.

The application asks you to elaborate on your hardship.

Maybe I haven't been reading enough in English lately. I interpreted that COMPLETELY differently. And I feel REALLY dumb now. Your explanation makes sense. (Particularly when thinking of the application question as an elaboration of socio-economic challenges rather than just everyday challenges. I mean, how many papers have we all filled out asking us to talk about a challenge and how you overcame it? That's where I was coming from, and I was clearly coming off incorrectly.) Whoops. Thanks for the clarification JKS!



I looked at the C/O 2012 thread, and there were posts about preparing for the program but nothing about the actual program.

[Stephanie13]

Thanks guys for replying! I just noticed that I received the email a couple of hours ago.. must've been a little after y'all get it. I didn't notice the part about the "socio-economic" stuff. I was super excited about the program and now I'm not sure I'd be considered for it. I might apply anyway. It couldn't hurt right?

[fl0w]

Maybe I haven't been reading enough in English lately. I interpreted that COMPLETELY differently. And I feel REALLY dumb now. Your explanation makes sense. (Particularly when thinking of the application question as an elaboration of socio-economic challenges rather than just everyday challenges. I mean, how many papers have we all filled out asking us to talk about a challenge and how you overcame it? That's where I was coming from, and I was clearly coming off incorrectly.) Whoops. Thanks for the clarification JKS!

I looked at the C/O 2012 thread, and there were posts about preparing for the program but nothing about the actual program.

I got this email. As someone w/ 5yrs work experience after undergrad, i don't think this program would be worthwhile for me. If they said something about getting an internship w/ the firm as a result, that would be a game-changer.

[mazzini]

I think I'm going to apply... having been out of school for a year I think it would be beneficial to have a 2 week crash course, even if it's not entirely helpful in terms of substance it may help me to shake the dust off and get me back into a school-type rhythm.

[romothesavior]

Does anyone know the out of state bar passage rate for WUSTL?? I cant seem to find it.

Also, Romo I didn't realize you are a Wash U guy I am surprised you didn't advise me to pick WUSTL!

I actually don't know... but I'll bet najumobi would. That kid is like the stat man around these parts. Maybe try an email to the school and ask them about it?

And yeah, I am a big time WUSTL guy. I just try to keep my zeal for Wash U confined to this thread. I don't want to be labled a Wash U troll (although that one notme guy in your thread accused me of being an anti-ND troll. I'm not, but I get really tired of all the ND trolls on this site. ND is NOT better than Wash U. Period! They are peers at best.)

But I digress... Have you decided on a school yet or are you still in limbo?

[najumobi]

Does anyone know the out of state bar passage rate for WUSTL?? I cant seem to find it.

Also, Romo I didn't realize you are a Wash U guy I am surprised you didn't advise me to pick WUSTL!

do you mean the bar passage rate for wustl grads taking bar exams for states other than for the state of missouri? if so, you can find that info here: http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA6929.pdf and it's 89.51% (87% of all wustl 1st time bar exam takers reporting)...though comparing bar passage rate is probably not a good criterion to use for school comparison.

[ENGINEERD]

Does anyone know the out of state bar passage rate for WUSTL?? I cant seem to find it.

Also, Romo I didn't realize you are a Wash U guy I am surprised you didn't advise me to pick WUSTL!

I actually don't know... but I'll bet najumobi would. That kid is like the stat man around these parts. Maybe try an email to the school and ask them about it?

And yeah, I am a big time WUSTL guy. I just try to keep my zeal for Wash U confined to this thread. I don't want to be labled a Wash U troll (although that one notme guy in your thread accused me of being an anti-ND troll. I'm not, but I get really tired of all the ND trolls on this site. ND is NOT better than Wash U. Period! They are peers at best.)

But I digress... Have you decided on a school yet or are you still in limbo?

Nope, despite your strong argument I'm still in between. I really understand that irvine is the most practical and credited choice but its just a personal preference at this point. I know your not an anti-nd troll iv seen your other posts and I agree that ND is not better than Wash U. However I think some were arguing ND is better for CA which I do agree with, although Spivey seems to be pretty focused on increasing Wash U's presence in CA.

najumobi, thanks for the info thats what I was looking for!

[romothesavior]

I'd probably agree Wash U is weaker in CA as a whole, but you are interested in IP law right? From what I've heard on TLS, ND isn't very strong in that area and they don't have a ton of course offerings in it (again, don't take it as gospel truth... look it up yourself to be sure and ask some others about it). Still, I think for IP in California, UCI is by far the best choice out of the three. But we'd love to have you at WUSTL!

Wash U is a great school, as is ND. Both are struggling a bit ITE, but I don't think its quite the doom and gloom forecast everyone says it is. Obviously OCI has not yielded biglaw jobs like it has in the past, but I was impressed by what Spivey said about bringing in tons of new firms. They do seem weaker on the west coast, but I don't think you'll be barred from getting back there with solid grades.

Have you visited all three schools? Where did you feel the best "fit?" Would you be comfortable living in the Midwest if getting back to Cali doesn't work out? These are things you should definitely ask yourself if you are still considering ND and Wash U.

And see? I told ya najumobi would know where to get that info. He is like our resident stat man in this thread.

[resjudicata]

Hey everyone. I'm a WashU 1L and was browsing this thread to take a break from studying for my crim law final. I just wanted to urge anyone who has the opportunity to apply for the Sonnenschein program to do so. I did the program last summer, and it is well worth it. I'm not sure why people think law-school prep programs are not valuable, but all of us who did the program felt like we started law school pretty far ahead of our peers in in several key ways: (1) we knew and understood the basic elements of a tort and a contract and we had a working understanding of the key historical common-law cases in those substantive areas; (2) we were not intimidated by the Socratic method, because we'd already been through it; (3) in terms of networking, we'd had the opportunity to build relationships with attorneys at one of the top firms in the city [which does hire a 1L summer associate through the diversity clerkship program]; (4) and finally we had built relationships with each other, so we didn't have the awkwardness of going through orientation knowing no one.

The program is intense in terms of the reading load and schedule during the two weeks, but again, we quickly realized that it had been worth it. Also, we met a couple of attorneys each day, they fed us well, and it gets you accustomed to feeling like a lawyer early on -- sitting in a large firm conference room with a great view of the arch (superficial, I know, but it makes you feel good).

Let me know if you have any other questions (about this or anything else WashU related).

Congrats on being admitted everyone.

[romothesavior]

Hey everyone. I'm a WashU 1L and was browsing this thread to take a break from studying for my crim law final. I just wanted to urge anyone who has the opportunity to apply for the Sonnenschein program to do so. I did the program last summer, and it is well worth it. I'm not sure why people think law-school prep programs are not valuable, but all of us who did the program felt like we started law school pretty far ahead of our peers in in several key ways: (1) we knew and understood the basic elements of a tort and a contract and we had a working understanding of the key historical common-law cases in those substantive areas; (2) we were not intimidated by the Socratic method, because we'd already been through it; (3) in terms of networking, we'd had the opportunity to build relationships with attorneys at one of the top firms in the city [which does hire a 1L summer associate through the diversity clerkship program]; (4) and finally we had built relationships with each other, so we didn't have the awkwardness of going through orientation knowing no one.

The program is intense in terms of the reading load and schedule during the two weeks, but again, we quickly realized that it had been worth it. Also, we met a couple of attorneys each day, they fed us well, and it gets you accustomed to feeling like a lawyer early on -- sitting in a large firm conference room with a great view of the arch (superficial, I know, but it makes you feel good).

Let me know if you have any other questions (about this or anything else WashU related).

Congrats on being admitted everyone.

It sounds like a cool program and I would apply if I were socioeconomically disadvantaged. Unfortunately, I don't think middle class white guys qualify.

On another note... how f*cked are we, seriously? Are Wash U students finding decent paying jobs, or are many of them up a creek without a paddle? Any info you could share would be appreciated.

Sorry for being a Negative Nancy... but I'm just in a terrible mood today.

[fl0w]

Hey everyone. I'm a WashU 1L and was browsing this thread to take a break from studying for my crim law final. I just wanted to urge anyone who has the opportunity to apply for the Sonnenschein program to do so. I did the program last summer, and it is well worth it. I'm not sure why people think law-school prep programs are not valuable, but all of us who did the program felt like we started law school pretty far ahead of our peers in in several key ways: (1) we knew and understood the basic elements of a tort and a contract and we had a working understanding of the key historical common-law cases in those substantive areas; (2) we were not intimidated by the Socratic method, because we'd already been through it; (3) in terms of networking, we'd had the opportunity to build relationships with attorneys at one of the top firms in the city [which does hire a 1L summer associate through the diversity clerkship program]; (4) and finally we had built relationships with each other, so we didn't have the awkwardness of going through orientation knowing no one.

The program is intense in terms of the reading load and schedule during the two weeks, but again, we quickly realized that it had been worth it. Also, we met a couple of attorneys each day, they fed us well, and it gets you accustomed to feeling like a lawyer early on -- sitting in a large firm conference room with a great view of the arch (superficial, I know, but it makes you feel good).

Let me know if you have any other questions (about this or anything else WashU related).

Congrats on being admitted everyone.

Thanks for this. It's much better context than the email and application package.

[resjudicata]

Hey everyone. I'm a WashU 1L and was browsing this thread to take a break from studying for my crim law final. I just wanted to urge anyone who has the opportunity to apply for the Sonnenschein program to do so. I did the program last summer, and it is well worth it. I'm not sure why people think law-school prep programs are not valuable, but all of us who did the program felt like we started law school pretty far ahead of our peers in in several key ways: (1) we knew and understood the basic elements of a tort and a contract and we had a working understanding of the key historical common-law cases in those substantive areas; (2) we were not intimidated by the Socratic method, because we'd already been through it; (3) in terms of networking, we'd had the opportunity to build relationships with attorneys at one of the top firms in the city [which does hire a 1L summer associate through the diversity clerkship program]; (4) and finally we had built relationships with each other, so we didn't have the awkwardness of going through orientation knowing no one.

The program is intense in terms of the reading load and schedule during the two weeks, but again, we quickly realized that it had been worth it. Also, we met a couple of attorneys each day, they fed us well, and it gets you accustomed to feeling like a lawyer early on -- sitting in a large firm conference room with a great view of the arch (superficial, I know, but it makes you feel good).

Let me know if you have any other questions (about this or anything else WashU related).

Congrats on being admitted everyone.

It sounds like a cool program and I would apply if I were socioeconomically disadvantaged. Unfortunately, I don't think middle class white guys qualify.

On another note... how f*cked are we, seriously? Are Wash U students finding decent paying jobs, or are many of them up a creek without a paddle? Any info you could share would be appreciated.

Sorry for being a Negative Nancy... but I'm just in a terrible mood today.

Fair enough. But part of being a lawyer is learning how to present a fact pattern to fit a legal standard. Why not just talk about a challenge you've overcome and frame it as a socioeconomic disadvantage? Or not. We had people from all walks of life in the program last year.

As far as being f*cked, it's all relative. Be glad you're not in the class of 2011. I have a lot of 2L friends who by any measure should be having much more success than they are. It's said. On the other hand, many of them are having success. But that doesn't matter for you. The economy is getting stronger and work is picking up for firms; I have had hiring partners at major STL firms say that to me directly. So, by the time you start looking for your all-important 2L summer position, there will be an entirely different landscape. As for my class, most people I know have found summer work. In terms of paid jobs, a few will be at large STL firms, some at firms where they have connections in their hometowns, and I know a guy who got a great gig working with in-house counsel for a major corporation on the west coast. As would be the case any year, most 1L's will be doing unpaid legal work this summer; but of course it doesn't hurt as bad for WashU students, because of the stipend. The school also offers a legal externship for 1L's for class credit. It's bad, but really that applies to the 2Ls and 3Ls. It's entirely speculative to say what the job picture will look like for my 2L year and particularly for yours.

[jman77]

Withdrew from BU. Barring any surprise acceptances from Cornell/USC/UCLA, looks like I will be seeing you guys this fall.

Gotta start friending folks on the FB Group page...

[stratocophic]

Hey everyone. I'm a WashU 1L and was browsing this thread to take a break from studying for my crim law final. I just wanted to urge anyone who has the opportunity to apply for the Sonnenschein program to do so. I did the program last summer, and it is well worth it. I'm not sure why people think law-school prep programs are not valuable, but all of us who did the program felt like we started law school pretty far ahead of our peers in in several key ways: (1) we knew and understood the basic elements of a tort and a contract and we had a working understanding of the key historical common-law cases in those substantive areas; (2) we were not intimidated by the Socratic method, because we'd already been through it; (3) in terms of networking, we'd had the opportunity to build relationships with attorneys at one of the top firms in the city [which does hire a 1L summer associate through the diversity clerkship program]; (4) and finally we had built relationships with each other, so we didn't have the awkwardness of going through orientation knowing no one.

The program is intense in terms of the reading load and schedule during the two weeks, but again, we quickly realized that it had been worth it. Also, we met a couple of attorneys each day, they fed us well, and it gets you accustomed to feeling like a lawyer early on -- sitting in a large firm conference room with a great view of the arch (superficial, I know, but it makes you feel good).

Let me know if you have any other questions (about this or anything else WashU related).

Congrats on being admitted everyone.

Yeah, the email seemed to play up the networking aspect, particularly given the fact that one of the student testimonials was from a grad who is now working in NY for... you guessed it, Sonnenschein

[publiuspublicola]

Anyone heard any updates on the Webster fellowships??

[jwm]

Edit: deleted

[nyyankees]

first post in 3+ weeks: Decision made, im going to wustl, see you all in the fall

yeah i saw that you had joined the facebook group...congrats. what helped you to choose wustl over nd?

i'm very interested in the answer to that question as well.

hey sorry i didnt get to this earlier, im currently abroad and i dont get to the internet, much less tls, as often as i would like.

i was offered twice as much to go to ND, and i turned it down. To me Mike Spivey was more impressive than the ND career services officers. He strikes me as a stand up kind of guy who will lace them up and work in the trenches for his students. I like that sort of character and i appreciate his work. Im not sure that directly translates to a job down the line, but he strikes me as the kind of person i work best with, so im very hopeful for the future. That being said, as impressive as his presentation was, the NLJ250 data and other numbers dont exactly support the idea that his work has manifested itself in more opportunities for WUSTL students just yet. Though career services was a big factor in my decision, I think the majority of it had to do with personal preferences for 'soft' factors. The placement numbers and salary data can only get you so far, but i do think a lot of choosing a school should be where you feel comfortable. In this category, WUSTL was head and shoulders above ND for a handful of reasons. I got a chance to sit in on a class at both places, and i felt that WUSTL students were noticeably more intelligent. Maybe that will make it harder to "succeed" but i think it will add to the richness of a classroom discussion or whatever. I just like to know that im in the company of brilliant minds and i felt like that was more the case at WUSTL than ND. Im big on diversity, i think it keeps things interesting and cuz white people suck haha jk jk, but seriously i felt that ND was a touch too homogeneous for me. South Bend struck me as pretty boring. I dont necessarily intend on getting out too much, but it seemed like there was VERY little to do around south bend. Coming from NYC, even stl feels small, but it also feels pretty manageable, interesting and quirky. The city has some character to it, which i like. When i visited both campuses, I felt that i had a better time at WUSTL. I was at ND during their opening round game of march madness, and i sat in the student center and watched the game, and the place was not as fired up as i would expect of them. I went to a school that has a very limited athletic history, so i thought a big d1 program would be full of superfans and crazies and i had to say i was pretty disappointed. Maybe 3 years at wustl will let me keep that ideal of what being a superfan at a major d1 program is like. Maybe its unfair, but i had much lower expectations out of st louis. and much to my surprise i found a very lively city with fun to be had. Also, im a bit of a prestige whore, and i dont think ND will ever get too far above where it currently is ranked whereas i do have faith that WUSTL will climb in the years to come. I come from a banking background so the unemphasizing the financial aspect of this decision was tough for me, but at the end of the day im really happy with my decision and i think its the right spot for me.

[llfurby]

For those interested, the roommate finder link is up and working on the Admitted Students page.

[romothesavior]

There hasn't been enough activity in this thread as of late. I've been kinda pessimistic about law school lately, so how 'bout some WUSTL love to get me feeling good again? What's everybody up to?

And nyyankees, glad to hear it bud. Lookin' forward to seeing you in the fall.

[mbaino]

There hasn't been enough activity in this thread as of late. I've been kinda pessimistic about law school lately, so how 'bout some WUSTL love to get me feeling good again? What's everybody up to?

And nyyankees, glad to hear it bud. Lookin' forward to seeing you in the fall.

Undergrad classes are finished, and St Louis is gorgeous today. I'm drinking a smoothie and fully intend to drink other things in honor of Cinco de Mayo tonight. It's a holiday! Celebrate!

[JCougar]

There hasn't been enough activity in this thread as of late. I've been kinda pessimistic about law school lately, so how 'bout some WUSTL love to get me feeling good again? What's everybody up to?

And nyyankees, glad to hear it bud. Lookin' forward to seeing you in the fall.

I'll admit that this process is very cynicism-inducing. Regarding many aspects of this process, people are treated like cattle and statistics, and the information fed to you is exaggerated, twisted, and bent to some extent. That's just life though, whether you're a law school applicant, a corporate office lackey, a biglaw associate, a government worker, a teacher, a voter, a consumer, etc. Jobs/large organizations where you are actually treated like a human being all the time are one in a million, and it's probably too much to expect any more. If you are looking for something to validate your worth as a person and as an individual, look towards family, friends, and a great significant other. Look to yourself. Don't expect it from your job or your school. If you do find that your job/school treats you like a real person, consider yourself pleasantly surprised.

But with the money WUSTL has offered you, and the quality of education it offers, you're already way ahead of the game compared to the vast majority of law school applicants. Celebrate your accomplishment so far and go out with some friends and have a good time.

A weekend out clubbing and with some Coronas at the beach did me well.

[NU_Jet55]

Figured I'd join this thread-admitted from the hold list yesterday, 90+% chance I'll be at WUSTL in the Fall. Looking forward to meeting everybody.